S2E39 – Designing Calm: Why Environments Matter For Neurodivergent Brains + guest Nika Brunet Milunovic

Season 2

Julie Legg is joined by Nika Brunet Milunovic, social worker, researcher, and founder of Calm Nest Collective. Nika shares how years working in the events and creative industries exposed a disconnect between how environments are designed and how human nervous systems actually function.

Drawing on her lived experience as a late-diagnosed neurodivergent woman, as well as her academic research, Nika explains why sensory overload, burnout, and emotional collapse are not personal failures, but predictable outcomes of overstimulating spaces. From conferences and festivals to offices, schools, and public venues, she makes a compelling case for sensory-friendly design as a form of prevention, not luxury.

This conversation explores how thoughtful environmental changes can radically improve regulation, focus, and wellbeing for ADHDers and non-ADHDers alike, and why creating calm, inclusive spaces is one of the most practical ways we can support mental health at scale.

KEY POINTS FROM THE EPISODE:

  • Why the events and creative industries are both a haven and a hazard for neurodivergent people
  • How burnout and mental health crises often stem from environmental overload, not individual weakness
  • What sensory-friendly spaces actually are, and how they support nervous system regulation
  • Why quiet rooms, calm corners, and sensory spaces benefit everyone, not just ADHDers
  • The science behind sensory deprivation, regulation, and the body’s stress response
  • How workplaces and schools unintentionally exclude neurodivergent needs
  • Small, low-cost environmental changes that make a big difference
  • The role of social media in helping neurodivergent people find language, community, and self-understanding
  • Why asking people what they need is the most powerful design tool we have
  • A reminder that strategies are personal, and regulation is not one-size-fits-all

LINKS:

TRANSCRIPT

NIKA: There are tactile elements in terms of weighted blankets, fidget toys. There we have special headsets with binaural bits therapy. This is another therapy that really calms your brain down very fast. We also use complete sensory proof headphones. So for people who just want to sit in silence. So yes, various elements tackling all your senses. And as I said, the first thing that everybody notices when they enter, they do a big like *sigh*.

JULIE: Welcome to Season 2 of ADHDifference. I’m your host, Julie Legg, ADHD advocate, author of The Missing Piece (a woman’s guide to understanding, diagnosing, and living with ADHD), and an unapologetic doer of many things. This season, we’re turning up the volume with a global lineup of brilliant guests bringing their lived experiences, insights, research, strategies, and resources. And of course, along with a healthy dose of humour and humility. Whether you’re neurodivergent yourself or just curious, there’s something here for every curious brain. Let’s dive in. Today I’m joined by Nika Brunet Milunovic, a social worker, founder of Calm Nest Collective, and someone who’s reimagining what it looks like to design events, workplaces, and public spaces with real human nervous systems in mind. After years in corporate roles and the events industry, running everything from international festivals to sustainability programs, Nika realized there was a gap between how spaces are designed and how people actually feel inside them. That insight led her to create Calm Nest Collective where she helps organizations build sensory friendly inclusive environments from quiet rooms at conferences to calm corners in workspaces. In this conversation, we’re exploring why environments matter so much for ADHD and neurodivergent brains and how small, thoughtful changes can make a big difference to how safe, focused, and regulated we feel. Welcome to the show, Nika. Thanks so much for being on the show today. [Thank you for having me.] It’s a pleasure. Yay. And all the way from Tanzania to New Zealand. Wonderful. You’ve spent years in corporate roles and then and the events world running everything from international festivals to sustainability programs before realizing something essential was missing. And can you take us back to that moment of realization? What were you seeing and feeling that the system wasn’t working for people’s well-being? 

NIKA: Yeah, a little bit of a background. I’m actually a social worker by profession. So I guess I always had this people… just this notion again for people and just yeah being really passionate about well-being and mental health. I started noticing things. So when I was working in the events industry for over 10 years already, events industry is a ruthless industry. We are most of all most of, first of all we are mostly freelancers which gives it a bit little bit of a background why everything is also a little bit more stressed because everybody’s getting really head over feet to get the job done. Just to get it, to get to be in the industry and to be famous in the industry in a way that you’re a responsible reliable person. And then yeah, 10 years into the industry COVID hit and I started noticing really severe patterns of depression, burnout, mental health issues in general within my colleagues but also within my family. It was I think our industry was one of the ones that was really impacted the most because during one night I remember it vividly. We stayed without our jobs without the possibility to work. There was no safety net. There was no umbrella. People just… we really just had to find something else to work on. And this lasted for a decent two years at least in where I was working at the moment in Europe. So it was hard and I think that everything else that we were working so hard all these years to somehow mitigate with being jolly and being fun and being amongst friends, and it is a joyful industry as well. It’s not every, not everything is bad. You can have a lot of fun of course. So we were somehow mitigating this just… everything just went to the surface and I said well I think I have a personal experience as well which I can share and what basically one of my teammates collapsed on behind the stage because of the burnout. So he had an episode and yeah, I just said I mean I think it’s time we start working on this industry and within the industry differently. And I’m a strong believer in that. So this is my path now. That’s what I’m trying to do. 

JULIE: And you’ve seen it firsthand and decided that’s it. Something’s got to be done about that. How did your own experiences with mental health and neurodiversity shape the way you started noticing environments differently? 

NIKA: Well, I’m neurodivergent myself, late diagnosed. Even though I think that since very early childhood, I just felt I was different. And this somehow, yeah, I mean, if you are a little bit in tune with your emotions and with your presence on this planet, you quickly understand you’re a little bit different. So of course when you grow up masking becomes a great thing to do just in order to fit better into the environment. But the changes and the differences were there and still are. The only difference is that now I’m aware of them in a way that I actually use them to my own good and the good of the others. And just for to be very transparent, event industry and all creative industries are full of neurodivergent people because we are just great at what we do and we are amazing when we are doing things good. And yeah this is just a fact. 

JULIE: Absolutely and all the wonderful things that come along with running events and festivals and in the creative industry as you said, it’s fast-paced. No day is ever the same. There are deadlines which we thrive in. We need to problem solve, you know, on a dime. You know, we do it all day long coming up with ingenious ideas. I can see how it’s rife and why we do so well. Absolutely. Now, the Calm Nest Collective is such a beautiful name and a really wonderful concept, too. What led you to create a consultancy and a design studio focused specifically on sensory friendly and inclusive spaces? 

NIKA: Yeah, Calm Nest Collective was actually born last year in December. Not last year, actually two years now. It’s so 2024. Yeah. My gosh, time flies. From the same need actually I started I mean throughout the years there was a lot of discussion how when if somebody is under severe stress or somebody just needs a moment to breathe there’s just simply nowhere to go. And by speaking with people, interviewing people, chatting with friends, with my colleagues, I figured something is missing. And we’re in 21st century and it breaks my heart that people within the corporate office if they want to catch a breather, they either have to be smokers just to go outside to be able, like this is allowed. You can go outside if you’re a smoker or you go to the toilet and just catch a breather there. I mean we should do a little bit better than that I guess in the 21st century. So I thought why don’t we… I mean sensory rooms as such are not a new thing. So this was invented in the 70s in the Netherlands. And they were firstly designed for children with autism. This is the background of the sensory space in general. But what we did is we tailored them to the wider population. And even though I always speak about neurodivergent people and how this is made for them, let’s put it like this, they work for everybody. And this is proven with our pilot projects. This is just something that’s beneficial for everybody and everybody uses this. And I think that the sensory room itself, the idea is that you actually are able to calm your senses down in a very short amount of time and just reset your nervous system just to catch a breather. That’s the story behind it and it really, really works. 

JULIE: That’s amazing. And so for listeners who might not have encountered this term before, what does this sensory friendly room or space actually mean in practice? What kind of elements are within this room?

NIKA: So the elements are, they are basically the spaces are usually dark. So we use a lot of like shading the light special light as well. So we tackle all of our senses. So there are visual elements, tactile elements, auditory, and proper assertive. So body awareness, smell, sound, touch and sight. How we do this is with various elements. I also use a lot of biophilic design which means we use natural plants inside because nature is a great healer and the elements are there as well. But other than that as I said the room is dark darker at least as much as we can make it dark if there are windows inside. There are tactile elements in terms of weighted blankets, fidget toys. There we have special headsets with binaural beats therapy. This is another therapy that really calms your brain down very fast. We also use complete sensory proof headphones. So for people just want to sit in silence. So yes, various elements tackling all your senses. And as I said the first thing that everybody notices when they enter they do a big like *sigh* so this is already a first sign, okay, this is working because you actually always do a big exhale. At least this is our experience. 

JULIE: And what sort of businesses would sort of take this approach and or situations or events would take this approach and have this sensory space? 

NIKA: To be honest, I started in events just for the simple reason because this was my home and still is because I’m still working in events. But really it really works for everything and everybody and we started promoting it really within the event. So conferences, congresses, I mean everything that you can imagine that has more than 30 people in the same place. So it can be a summit, it can be a festival, it can be a club show, music club show, and then of course offices of all kinds. So every corporate, every corporate building should have it or at least one. Not necessarily mine but still some kind of some kind of space like this. And of course public spaces as well schools for example this is a great or universities are definitely a place that benefits significantly from these kind of spaces. 

JULIE: Wow that sounds ideal. Absolutely. Especially when the chaos of life and whether it be in a, at a festival or event or in the workplace when, especially for us neurodivergent folk, when things are too much just to be able to go to the space and feel safe and calm down. And as you said that’s not going to the bathroom and not going outside for a cigarette. So what a healthy way to re-energize and just calm things down. Many ADHDers can feel overwhelmed and exhausted or dysregulated in workplaces, events, and public spaces almost without knowing why. So, how do you think environments impact the nervous system, attention, and I guess emotional regulation as well? 

NIKA: Well, I think the basic idea of design in general is that it should work for everybody. But we know very well we are not all the same. And already this kind of programming let’s put it like this or however I don’t want to be judgmental or anything but still I think this starts already in school because you put 20, 25, 30 children in one same classroom and just expect everybody will behave the same, regulate the same, have the same responses to the sensory input as well. It doesn’t work like this. So some people use bright lights. Some people use dimmed lights. Some people do better in the morning. Some people do better in the afternoon. Some people like loud music. Some people work in silence. So it’s impossible to do it. And I think one of the reasons why schools are really so impacted by this and we say children don’t behave well. Well, I don’t think so. I think we’re just not being able to actually support them in a way that they would behave okay or that they would feel supported in a system which is something that we are not doing. For example, airports are such a great way to amplify the impact. Even if you’re neurotypical, airport is a super stressful environment. I don’t know a single person who would say, “Oh, I love going to the airport.” And I love, I mean I personally love flying but I hate airports. So, and if you imagine parents with a with a neurodivergent children, or even neurodivergent parents, or just somebody who has some kind of sensory processing difficulty whatever that might be, an airport is a super stressful environment. This is loud. It is crowded. It is bright lights everywhere. There is no place to go. You can’t sit anywhere in a dimmed light. Everything is super lighted. You’re running on schedule. You’re I mean everything is it’s pretty much as close as crazy as possible. Events are similar in a way and this is why I think that they these kind of spaces really work the best in this kind of environment because I think that people are just not aware how beneficial this is on a larger scale just to offer a space where you can just go inside, sit there for 5, 10, 15 minutes whatever and just do nothing if possible. It really, really… the return on investment and just the benefits are over the top. 

JULIE: And why do you think that these sensory needs are so misunderstood or underestimated? 

NIKA: Because I think that we are quite late with opening discussion about how everybody feels. I think that well you probably know that we are now reaching about 25% of a worldwide population being neurodivergent which is something that has rapidly risen in the past few years. Well, it is not that we are suddenly all neurodivergent. No, we’re just not being diagnosed. So, this is one gap. The other thing is that we particularly in modern environment and then the older the person gets, the more corporate ladder or any work ladder you climb, the less you want to speak about your personal problems, your… it’s not even a problem. It’s basically situation or however you want to call it difference. And I think that we were not very… and then I think it’s also this geographical thing. For example, I’m from the Balkans. And Eastern Europe in general or just Europe in general, we are… Scandinavia for example is also a great example. We are not, I’m not going to say we’re cold people, but we really stick for ourselves. Like we are more private, more… we are very jolly when it comes to partying yes, but speaking about your own personal problems not very much. So we more this stays it’s not even within the family because I don’t remember speaking about my parents about this either. So long story short I think that throughout the years perception has changed spaces, has changed in a way that there is now an option. Social media is one of the things where you can more or less say how you feel if you will be judged or not. This is another thing but still I think the rise of the social media gave it a little bit of a space that you can share your stories and also find your own people. Because before if you were feeling different you had a feeling you’re on your own and nobody is feeling the same that you do and nobody is having this kind of thoughts or is operating in a way that you are. And you felt completely lost and completely yeah, like you something is definitely and terribly wrong with you. But with the rise of social media, I think that people finally have a chance now to find their own people in a way like “Uhhuh okay, look. Oh she’s struggling with reading as well. Oh she can’t sit still for 5 minutes as well.” So just to be to find people you can actually relate to. I mean social media has ups and downs and pluses and minuses. Absolutely. And definitely not all is bread and butter there. But I think this changes in the last 20 to 30 years, there were some changes. Maybe some of them are very subtle but still changes in a way that people are being able to express now their own differences, difficulties, even struggles but also wins. So I think it’s yeah, I think this is the biggest change that happened. And the reason why suddenly we are talking about this more and we are trying to change the world in a way to make it work for everybody. 

JULIE: No, that’s great. And I imagine in some of these sensory rooms too, again, whether it’s at a conference or a workplace, going there and knowing that you are amongst like-minded others too, and you need not over-explain yourself while you’re there. You’re there and you just do what you need to do to calm down and regulate. It must be a nice feeling knowing that you’re surrounded by others that are doing the same for similar reasons as well. 

NIKA: I think it’s just that feeling of being welcomed and supported if needed. So I think that just this feeling that you can do whatever you feel like because we’ve had various experiences because our… on an event, our sensory spaces are stuffed. So we always use at least two trained mental health first-aiders on site and you wouldn’t believe the reaction. So for example, some people cry, some people get very emotional and the reason for that is it’s scientifically there. And just it’s a very simple reason just your sensory overload was so high that once you get into the environment where this is deprived so the body is deprived of sensory input you just really distress in such short amount of time. The body and the mind reacts differently for every person. So that’s the whole reason behind it. But it is impactful and yeah some people react, I mean people react differently to it. 

JULIE: There are so many PhD folk within the ADHD community. It’s incredible. So it’s not about doing bad at school. It’s about being passionate about you know and the desire to learn and drive and research. Tell me more about your PhDs, plural. 

NIKA: Yeah, this is already my second one. So, in the first one, I was exploring mental health within the events industry, within the events professionals. And my focus were not as musicians focused, but more on the production folks, people like myself. So, people who work behind the scenes endlessly and tirelessly, but without or very little recognition, and people just don’t see them on stage. We all see the musician playing, right? So the artist is the focus and not necessarily the people working in production. So this was my first research and what came out of it was, I mean one of the things that actually came out of it is first of all that mental health and support offered, at least at the time when I was doing the research, was very little to none. And Covid actually amplified that and just everything went through the roof. And second thing came out is that as I what I’ve mentioned before, is that industry creative industries in general are full of neurodivergent people. And what I do want to now research more is the impact the consequences but also the pluses and yeah everything else around it. So I think that yeah, you’ve put it very right when you’ve said it’s all about passion. It’s not even being good at school. But I think there is a big thing that or a lot of things that still need to be researched. There is not a lot of research done in this field. But I think the results are really, or what comes out of it are really impactful and can really make an impact to a lot of a wider population. 

JULIE: You create with your design background to these amazing spaces for corporates and events and festivals. What are some small changes you’ve seen make a surprisingly big difference for neurodivergent people? 

NIKA: I think for example if we speak I mean there are some simple rules that I would definitely advise to for to everybody to tend to no matter whether you’re running an event company, office production space, whatever. Talk to your people ask them what is that they need. Is there anything that you can do to help them work better, feel better? Some as I said, some people do better with headphones when they work even if this is a crowded office or particularly when it is a crowded office. I was one of those people and this is not because I don’t like my colleagues and it’s not because I don’t like my boss or because I want to don’t want to talk to anybody. I’m not locking myself out. It’s just I need to focus and I can’t do it if it is loud. So and as I said, in 30 years, 25 years ago when I started working my boss had the same question. What is wrong with you? Why are you having headphones on your head all the time? People want to talk to you and they feel like they can’t approach you. And then I explained. I said, “Look, I mean, it doesn’t… you don’t need to be that judgmental and I don’t like the tone, but still, just for you to understand, I just simply operate better. It’s loud. It’s crowded. Energies bother me. And yeah, sometimes I do put my headphones on because I just want to have 30 minutes of silence and just want to focus on something without people bothering me all the time. Like, hi, how are you?”  So yeah, it’s and I think that just this by asking questions, it is unbelievable how much you can achieve. And then there are these small differences within for example a corporate design of the office. Just design or keep differences in mind when you’re renovating your office. Do install plants. Plants are a great and such soothing element of the design with amazing benefits with I mean everything is that we need is there. So the larger the plants the better and the more the plans of the office the better. And then of course also design with the mind and this goes also for events. Design with the mind that there are differences within people. Not it will… not everything work will not work for everybody. Let the people bring their own things from home. If they want to have I don’t know, teddy bear on the on the desk because they feel better. Yeah. Just let them. It’s not we are not sterile. So I think that these are just these small things that and of course there are many, many courses already online and books written on this how you can actually make your environment work better for everybody. It doesn’t cost a lot of money. You just need to have this in mind from start. That’s all that it takes. 

JULIE: That’s fabulous. So asking the questions of your people what they need and it’s not about doing it perfectly but doing things a bit more thoughtfully. I love that. So thank you for explaining it. It seems very achievable and also asking for help. 

NIKA: There are people in companies like us who are quite good at what we do. Just ask for help. It doesn’t cost much. It sometimes usually doesn’t cost anything because it’s just an advice. And this is the really, really great way to start making an impact. 

JULIE: Oh, that’s amazing. And you’re currently pursuing a PhD on mental health and neurodiversity in the events industry, you’re hosting a podcast and you’re mentoring founders and students. So there’s a lot going on for you. What’s feeling most exciting or meaningful right now for you and your work? 

NIKA: I think just this ability to hold the space for people to share who they are, what they’re doing, and just if I can help, of course, in any way, this is extremely meaningful. But I think for example, podcast is a great way, but also mentoring. I ended up doing mentoring by coincidence, and I just figured I’m really good at it and the feedback shows it as well. Podcast was another thing. This is a fresh thing. Think it’s some kind of a Calm Nest Collective baby because there were a lot of people I do speak a lot of on conferences on panels. So yeah I did a lot of public speaking in the past as well in terms of sustainability and events industry and people just said but you’re so comfortable with speaking and why don’t you just have a podcast or just record something and I was like yeah, why don’t I. So the whole idea of the podcast really came as a Calm Nest baby. And the idea is really for people to just share their stories and for the same reason that I mentioned before, it’s unbelievable how many people relate to people’s stories. 

JULIE: Wow. Absolutely. Nika, for someone listening who feels constantly overstimulated and exhausted by their environment or just feels like the world’s just a little bit too loud, what would you most want them to know? 

NIKA: First of all, that they’re not alone. There are many of us who share this story. And second of all, there are small but impactful ways to mitigate this. You just need to find your own, and don’t be afraid to challenge, but also try all the possible options you can think of and find your own one because something that works for me might not necessarily work for you or for anybody else. And it’s just sometimes it’s a hit and miss, but just experiment because eventually it will. You will find your own way how to do it that it works for you. 

JULIE: Absolutely. Yes, strategies aren’t necessarily a one-size-fits all, are they? We do need to tailor them to our natural rhythms and what works for us and our strengths. And but that’s such lovely words. Thank you so much, Nika. In the show notes, I’ll be putting links to your consultancy so people can find you and read more about you and reach out to you. I’d just like to say thank you so, so much for your time this morning and I wish you all the very, very best with your PhD. I think that’s absolutely glorious. 

NIKA: Thank you so much for having me. I think it was such a lovely conversation and I can’t imagine it. Time flew so much. Thank you. It’s such an important podcast as well. Thank you.

 

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