Julie Legg and Jel Legg chat about ADHD and Anxiety – the ongoing worry, nervousness and a myriad of fearful thoughts that can stem from ADHD traits, or be an anxiety disorder that affects neurotypicals too.
They discuss how anxiety often intertwines with ADHD traits, like forgetfulness and impulsivity, creating unique triggers that can lead to excessive worry and self-doubt. Julie and Jel reflect on the impact of external stressors, such as media-driven fear, and the challenges of managing both cognitive anxiety (thought-based) and physical anxiety (unexpected physical symptoms). They offer personal strategies for managing anxiety, including mindfulness, seeking advice from trusted individuals, and finding ways to stay grounded in the present.
KEY TAKEAWAYS
- Connection between ADHD and Anxiety: Around 50% of adults with ADHD experience anxiety, which may stem from ADHD traits like forgetfulness, impulsivity, or difficulties with organization. These traits can trigger worry and self-doubt, especially in situations where trust in one’s abilities is compromised.
- Triggers and Self-Perception: Simple ADHD-related lapses can spiral into significant self-doubt and anxiety. For example, forgetting to secure valuables may lead to doubts about trustworthiness and increased anxiety about future lapses.
- Media Influence: Exposure to dramatic news can heighten anxiety, especially when framed as “fears.” This heightened emotional content can trigger anxiety for those with ADHD who may already be sensitive to stressors.
- Types of Anxiety in ADHD: Cognitive (thought-based) and non-cognitive (physical symptoms) anxiety both affect those with ADHD. Physical responses to triggers can come unexpectedly, even without logical cause, while cognitive anxiety often involves looping thoughts about finances, job security, or future uncertainties.
- Strategies for Managing Anxiety: Techniques like externalizing problems (considering a third-person perspective) and mindfulness can help. Maintaining focus on the present, rather than dwelling on past mistakes or future unknowns, can mitigate stress. The couple also highlights the value of seeking advice from older, experienced individuals.
LINKS
- Julie is the author of THE MISSING PIECE: A Woman’s Guide to Understanding, Diagnosing and Living with ADHD (Harper Collins, 2024)
TRANSCRIPT
JULIE: I’m Julie Legg, author of The Missing Piece and diagnosed with ADHD at 52.
JEL: And I’m Jel Legg, diagnosed at 55.
JULIE: Welcome to ADHDifference. In today’s episode we’ll be talking about ADHD and anxiety. You can have an anxiety disorder without having ADHD and you can have anxiety because of your ADHD traits. So more often than not, in fact in the States they’ve said around 50% of adults with ADHD are likely to suffer from some anxiety issues, so we’ll be talking about all things anxiety today.
JEL: So this is just our perspective, our experience, our angle. Anxiety is such a broad subject that we are by no means experts on it. We’re not doctors. We’re not psychologists. We’re not psychiatrists. We’re just people who are unmedicated with ADHD who have experience of anxiety and we can share some of those experiences we have. It is not by any means an absolute “This is how it is, and this is how it’s fixed, and this is how it works.” It’s just our experience. I think from someone with ADHD, I think for me, anxiety is something that that is triggered or potentially triggered in heaps of different situations. Perhaps that’s the thing that defines it for me is how easily or often it can be triggered. And therefore, in the grand ages of 50s, our 50s, in our 50s a lot of it’s just been a learned experience over time of how to manage it, and how to not let it become runaway, a runaway anxiety. Although we can share a couple of stories in this, you know, there are times when it does run away with itself. So we’re not immune to it. There’s no zen magical answer to this.
JULIE: And if we can define what anxiety means to us, and it would be this nervousness, a fear or a worry that’s quite ongoing or long term, and it can be quite irrational or at least out of proportion with reality or that certain situation. And when we think about our ADHD traits, for me and I think we both share this Jel, that all of our traits lead to anxiety, you know if we’re not careful. And so an example can be forgetfulness, for me. I forget to turn the garden hose tap off. It’s brought to my attention maybe days later or after a sort of major plumbing issue. And then I’m really anxious now about water, every time. You know, have I turned the tap off? Have … what else have I forgotten to turn off? Do I double check the oven to make sure that hasn’t been turned off. Then I worry about what a mess it would make and is our insurance up to date. And I really over-worry about something that stems from a quite a simple trait.
JEL: That’s actually a really good one because I think the worry there is yes, you can rationalize the worry of what happens if, if and if with insurance and so on, but I think the real deep worry there is doubting yourself and wondering whether you can trust yourself anymore. You only have to make a mistake once and it can explode into a lot of self-doubt. A good example is we have a room with some important bits and pieces in there, and we have door locks on the doors and the windows, and within that room there’s a safe and that’s when we can put things if we go out that we would like to be safe. And so I’m very meticulous with this you know, and I remember one time we went out for a couple of hours and come back and I’d completely left the door open and the safe door open. So it was completely pointless and you know, and then I doubt myself. That was the first time I’d done it in years and I think “Oh my word, I can’t trust myself.” So a huge amount of anxiety kicked in with that. It wasn’t so much about what would have happened if that was the couple of hours someone decided to burgle the house and take everything. It was not the fear of losing things per se. It was the fear of not being able to trust myself to do something so obviously important because we were in a hurry. But actually not that much of a hurry. It was just I have to take that one on the chin. I just didn’t stop for a moment. So most of the things I’m likely to mess up is less forgetfulness and not trusting myself to go through a process and procedure. Even if it’s just slowing down a bit.
JULIE: And I think there are some areas that can trigger that too, external to us. I can worry all day long about things, or things that I’ve said, or overthinking that just goes a bit askew and a bit out of proportion. But you know, listening to the radio for example and you’re being bombarded with all this talk of fear, and catastrophe, and crisis, and to take on board external challenges and issues can also magnify our own anxiety going on quite separate from that.
JEL: Yeah. We worked, I worked out a wee while ago actually, and I’m not the first person to work this out, that news on the radio or TV or in newspapers share something in common with soap operas. Now I’m not a fan of soap operas, never have been, but I have been in situations living with people who were fans. And so a particular soap opera, it doesn’t matter which one it is, would be on every night, five nights a week. And the entire premise of a soap opera is based around drama. You know, who’s just slept with whom, who’s been burgled, who’s lost their job, who’s this? This and all the shocks and horrors and that’s what keeps you hooked, it’s drama. So if you’ve got a relatively quiet life you can enjoy someone else’s drama. Julie’s right. We started to notice every news bulletin will start at some point, some headline: Fears. Fears of job losses. Fears the next pandemic will be bigger than the last and we won’t be able to do anything about it. Fears for climate change. Fears for … you name it. And it’s a really interesting word to start because it’s a very triggering word. Fear. Now I call fear: fear of a fire starting in the house and it started. That’s a real fear. Now I’ve got to get that little fire out before the house burns down. An irrational one for me is fear there’s a spider on my shoulder, that’s another story. That’s a fear that I can feel but in listening to fears of something happening to some people in a small community somewhere else? I feel sorry for them but I can’t take that fear on board. And so one way to stop triggering this thing, this anxiety, it could be triggered by this media that’s coming at you all the time. Fears Russia’s going to nuke London. What would happen if that happened? Fears of a change of election somewhere that’s going to cause World War III and so on and so on. You can’t take all that on board but it’s designed for people perhaps who don’t have anxiety all day long to be able to be excited by it. I don’t know.
JULIE: Just on that, I think we can take that on board but we shouldn’t, if you know what I mean?
JEL: Well we shouldn’t. And if we have the capacity, and I do have the capacity to read these things because I’ve developed this sort of separation from them that it … yeah. I mean I’m the sort of person that likes disaster movies and action movies, so I sort of put them in the same box even though of course one’s fantasy and one’s real life. But they can be very triggering I imagine if you’re young and you’re hoping for a future, and you’re constantly being told things that will ruin that future or cut it short. So the first thing to look at is are you absorbing too much of this drama and too much of this style of presenting news to you which was not the case 50 to 100 years ago. We know this because we’ve got old newspapers from the 1940s and it’s amazing to read what they were like. They didn’t use adjectives and they didn’t use passion and these entertaining descriptors to get your emotions going. They just reported on the story as facts. So journalism now is much like, in my opinion, much like entertainment. It’s designed to elicit a response in you and most of the time it’s an anxiety. I’d say.
JULIE: Interesting too I know I’m probably going off track a little, which hey hey … [But say what’s around us. It’s there, it’s all around us.] Yes, yes. What I was going to say is that you know, an ADHD couple having a conversation, the odds are we will get to the point eventually but it’ll likely be non-linear. So going back to your point with the news. I think once upon a time the news man with a straight face will tell you life is grim but also they don’t, well they didn’t change their emotion. They’d talk about a wedding and some volcanic eruption with the same expression. It’s different now you know. You hear the emotion rising in the voice and the odd tear from a newsreader, for example. And therefore, even their delivery is slightly emotionally … [Charged.] Yeah yeah and so I think with ADHD, we’re likely to pick up on things like that where we don’t just hear the words, we take on board emotions as well.
JEL: And it’s also very difficult if you’re struggling with this as an ADHDer with anxiety of all the world’s problems, it’s … you need to look at the things and see what’s a fact, what’s news being reported, and what’s the opinion of the writer, because that it’s been blurred. We used to have opinion writers but they were very separate places. And the news was not based around opinion. As Julie says, it’s become more entertainment and more about layering the opinion of who’s delivering the news to you. And that opinion, I’m just saying you know, that there is so much out there that could trigger anxiety about things about which you can very pretty much do nothing about. So that might be a first place to look at where you’re being triggered and that’s the big world. Now let’s shall we bring it back to just ordinary everyday life where … because we’ve talked about so many things so far in this series and pretty much everything we’ve ever spoken about could be a source of anxiety. Social engagement, having to go somewhere you don’t want to in a social environment, dentists, doctors, waiting in a queue, impatience. All the things that define ADHD, all of which at the heart of it are not getting the dopamine hit and suffering in that space where you’re doing something against what you want to do to get the dopamine hit, that I think is a big set of triggers for people with ADHD that will cause anxiety.
JULIE: Absolutely and you know, boredom for example too. Boredom can feel like torture for us but I think it’s not just being bored, it’s the anxiety that creeps in because of the boredom. You know what I mean? So it’s almost like all roads lead to anxiety, potentially. Now as I said before, 50% of adults with ADHD will experience anxiety as well, so there may be some going “No, no. That? No, I don’t get anxious. Yes I’m late but other than troubling for a short period of time I’m … it doesn’t create any issues for me.” And I wanted to talk about how with misdiagnosis, we were both diagnosed as adults and throughout our lifetime I know I certainly was offered depression medication. I wasn’t misdiagnosed it was just quite freely offered to me and I said “No I’m not depressed at all. I’m just having a rough time in a certain situation.” So people may be diagnosed with anxiety, separately because you can have it separately, but the ADHD side may not have been picked up. So anxiety medication may assist but it may not really affect the ADHD side of things if it had been missed. In saying that, I understand if you are medicated for ADHD with a stimulant prescription, that can have an impact on your anxiety too. It could lessen aspects but also it could increase aspects. So I think if you think you might be prone to anxiety and you are on stimulant medication, do check in with your doctor and and/or psychiatrist just to make sure that you’re on the right meds. Because it should improve matters not make things worse. But it is really tricky and some, as I said before, there’s anxiety that is separate and then there’s ADHD anxiety. There’s a bit of blur between the two and it’s not necessarily up for us to work that out. That’s where the professionals can come in so hence a diagnosis with a psychiatrist or a psychologist can help identify if they are two separate things or not.
JEL: Because yeah, you could … I can think of a medical situation I had which led to a lot of anxiety and it was pre-diagnosis and it may have … post diagnosis if that had happened, I might have had a slightly different relationship to it. So I found myself, and it was a common medical condition which is not unusual or weird, and I couldn’t swallow and I lost lots of weight over weeks and weeks and it was just a simple thing which was easy to fix with gastric reflux tablets. But I was walking into emergency ER rooms and I was been told “You’re suffering from anxiety so I think this is all in your head. You need to go home,” and that just made it worse and worse and worse. And, with an ADHD mind, I needed to get this fixed. I was losing lots of weight. I wasn’t eating. It was just … there was something wrong. And so the mind just goes somewhere. This is the end. This is so serious. We need to fix it now or do I have to start giving up on a future? And in the end … ah, something we haven’t mentioned, for us both what causes anxiety is not knowing. We need to know. It doesn’t matter if it’s good news or bad news. We’re impatient and we have to know. So even if it’s bad news, tell us now, rip the plaster off. Now we can deal with it. We’ve got what we need to move forward but I couldn’t get to the bottom of this and so the anxiety was going through the roof. And eventually it got diagnosed by a clever doctor and that’s fantastic. And the second it got diagnosed the anxiety started to go down and I knew what I was dealing with and it was brilliant. It took a long time for the anxiety. Anxiety could still have weird triggers afterwards. This one might affect you. Sometimes you can have triggers that are real, they are caused by something real and that was a real medical condition causing an anxiety. It wasn’t in my head but it was being amplified I think because I had ADHD. A few months later we were catching a flight. It was only a 2-hour flight and I love flying. I’m one of those people that loves airplanes and I love the take-off and I love the landing. I love the exciting bits so there’s no fear of flying there at all. Down the escalator to board the plane, complete panic attack like anxiety. I knew what was happening to me and I thought is this because I’m scared of flying or being in a confined space … which I don’t like confined spaces but I don’t mind airplanes. It took a long time of looking back over 20 years to spot those moments that had happened and they all had something in common. It was after strong coffee. Not the coffee I drink at home, not the coffee grade five sometimes that I used to have in a percolator. It was something about certain coffees, in certain places, in certain cafes, that could cause that. So I don’t drink that coffee when we go out anymore. You might find it could be something really simple somewhere but in that moment your world comes crashing down and it feels like you’re going to die. All the physical or psychological symptoms of anxiety: the heartbeat, the tight chest, everything. Abject fear, which I put on the same scale as finding out there is a spider on your shoulder. I mentioned it earlier which I found out the other day and what kicks in is utterly uncontrollable if you have a fear of spiders. And that is a type of anxiety that I think with ADHD if you’re getting that at times, yeah, that … I haven’t got an answer for it. I’m just saying it can really … an irrational response is not unusual.
JULIE: And I think too, getting back to your coffee and your airport escalator issue, maybe it wasn’t just the coffee and maybe it wasn’t just the flight. Maybe it’s the combination of a whole bunch of things. Making sure that we get to the gate on time. Yes, the caffeine. Yes, the excitement. And I think a whole you know, a whole bundle of things. It could have been quite a happy exciting time but you still got feelings of anxiety around that. So it could be a number of things contributing at any one point in time.
JEL: I still put it down to the coffee but it can sneak up sometimes. They can sneak up on you. I remember it took a long time before it settled down after the big episode that got with the real medical cause, which is now completely under control. It took a long time. It took a few years. You could suddenly be sat there just working away quietly and suddenly it comes on you. So here it is. And I learned to separate it from me thinking it’s something else and it’ll come and it’ll pass you know. And yeah, I do the breathing exercises or just try to think of something else and it goes. Yeah, interesting eh. So there’s lots of approaches to anxiety. Another one is this cognitive anxiety. I, what I’ve just described is not cognitive. I don’t think myself into that position. It literally … I could be very happy, blessed. Feel life is beautiful in a happy day, good mood, and it just whack, it hits me. Then there’s another one that’s I think more of a cognitive anxiety where you start fixating and going around on loops on something that is a reasonable worry. You know, it might be finances. It might be the idea you might be made redundant. It could be debt. It could be all sorts of things. And we were talking about this earlier, one of the ways to deal with that is actually to go and talk to someone and it doesn’t always have to be a counsellor. Sometimes it can just be someone who’s got some wisdom. And I … my experience has always been try and find, have someone in your life if you’re lucky enough that’s 20 or 30 years older than you that you can talk to. I’ve never really found it much use talking to people my own age when I was younger especially because we’re likely to be in the mess together. But someone older can be very good at just putting a bit of perspective on the situation. They’ve been through it and come out the other side. That’s where the hope lays.
JULIE: And yeah, perspective and just fresh ears too. So if they’re hearing your problem for the first time they might be able to put it into perspective. Is it really as bad you know, as you’re saying? And, you know, there are things within our control and beyond our control and what can we do about it. And sometimes this second person, just to bounce off some ideas, is really very helpful. Because when we talk about our overthinking, and we’re really good at thinking in loops, it almost … [Stuck in loops.] Yeah and we almost need to break out of that loop otherwise it can just keep on going.
JEL: And another way of dealing … if you’re not fortunate enough to have older people in your life, and in our case the number because of our age is shrinking, people who are 30 years older than us there not too many as many as it used to be. If you’re in your 20s you’ll have parents of friends that you really respect that you can talk to, all sorts of people. One little trick we do if we’re in a situation where we’re really struggling with something that could cause us lots of anxiety is we’ll sit with each other and we’ll say “What would this third person over here, who doesn’t exist, it’s an imaginary person, what would they say?” Let’s get them analyzing and talking back to our situation and they would point out all the positives and what the blessings are and how things are good. So it’s a sort of cathartic approach to externalizing the problem. You can do this as a pair too into what would they say? And be honest with yourself. Don’t bias it. Listen to what that third person would say. And that may sound slightly odd but it is a form of catharticism, as is the same as writing down all of the worry and all of the problems and all the issues. And then over here try and find a positive list. It isn’t then “Oh the positive list is bigger than it.” It can be shorter than the negative list but the process of writing it down or externalizing it starts the process of reducing the anxiety.
JULIE: That is really good and we’ve put it into practice many times too. What is really difficult is in the moment anxiety, when you don’t have a chance to be rational and to be honest, I don’t know. I don’t have an answer for it because I still experience it. So there’s different types of anxiety. There’s generalized anxiety disorder known as GAD (G.A.D.), there’s a panic disorder and then there’s this social anxiety as well. And I think for me, I often get caught in the social anxiety and it surprises me all the time because I’m a really social person. I enjoy talking to people. I you know, I enjoy getting out there and seeing different things but it’s … it can, as you said, it just whacks you.
JEL: Another approach I take is you … some people live in the past all the time and some people live in the future all the time, and we all have to live in those two spaces to some degree, that’s what defines us. But we’ve said this before with this thing called mindfulness is a great antidote I think to anxiety is just to stop for a second and live in the present. And in the present look around you, and as you start to appreciate actually it is a beautiful day, the sun is shining, it is warm, the birds are singing, I can hear the wind rustling in the trees. Or as I go for a walk. I can see other people going about their daily business and they’re smiling and say hello. All these things they do, they were a great antidote to anxiety because clearly there’s all sorts of anxiety that can come from the past, living in … well we’ve talked about lots about things we should have said and done, the mistakes we made, all the results of ADHD or not sometimes, and then the future is full of fear and the unknown and we are people that have to know. We just don’t like the unknowns. We like the excitement of something new and just not planning out. We don’t plan meticulously. We’re not like that but, you see, the same thing can have two results, can’t it? We like the idea of hitting the road and being homeless, and being in a van for months and just until we perhaps find a hopefully find another house. We’re excited by that. For some people that would be a nightmare. We’re excited by it. But not knowing when we’re going to be able to sell the house, not planning, that is just really causing a lot of anxiety because we’re stopped from that leap forward into the great unknown. I guess it’s all about, whatever age you’re at, is recognizing the strengths and weaknesses, recognizing where something is exciting and isn’t anxious, and something is anxious and not exciting. And sometimes it’s hard to know which is which but the more you can get to work out what the triggers are … yeah.
JULIE: I agree and it’s a bit like our traits when we’re experiencing them, and the outcome may or may not be anxiety but let’s say it is, yeah just to stop and go “I recognize those feelings. I’m feeling anxious.” First of all acknowledging that and then why is that? Why is that? Why is it making me you know, just feel restless and concerned and over-worrying? And that in itself, answering your own question, may help you resolve it. You know, if bored … if you’re anxious because you’re bored, well why? Can you do something about it? No, you’re still waiting for the doctor, but you can momentarily and think of something to do in that moment while you’re waiting.
JEL: Can I just say on that one yeah, there is no one size fits all when it comes to anxiety and ADHD. This Saturday I’m going to do a bungee jump (I’m not, I would be so scared I can’t imagine how awful that would be) but if you’re into bungee jumping this Saturday I’m doing a bungee jump. So one is anxiety and fear and I wish I hadn’t said I’d do this, and the other one is sheer excitement and dopamine hit that you can’t wait, wish Saturday would come around. They’re both the same event. It’s how you relate to them. Yeah definitely. And that’s an extreme obvious one but the same thing can happen to “This Saturday I’ve got to go to a barbecue with my friends or my parents,” or “Monday I’ve got a work appraisal.” These things is … you finding out about yourself and working at how you relate to them is a really good start to recognizing which one is interesting and exciting and which one’s a cause of anxiety.
JULIE: And I think one of our ADHD traits is, as well as overthinking, it’s problem solving. And part of those things is that we’re very observant and aware and we pick out detail, and we pick out this, and we almost put together this puzzle. And in the void of knowledge, we can sometimes create our own story if you know what I mean. So it … we might be concerned over things that aren’t actually true because we don’t have that information, so we assume all these scenarios. What if this happens and what if that happened? And we’ve got this uncanny ability to be able to piece it all together like a puzzle and come up with a possible conclusion which might be not reality. It might not be as it may seem at the time.
JEL: Another way of putting it, I think is to say that ADHD folks are known to be quite creative. And a precursor for creativity is imagination. And overthinking and imagination are sort of pretty much the same thing really. And so our wild imaginations can dream up all sorts of scenarios that increase anxiety where the reality is a different place. And so again, having someone in your life who perhaps is a little bit more logical and a little somewhere down there that can see things a bit more coldly for what they are, could be a useful person to talk to. [Ah anxiety, eh?] It was a worry even thinking about doing this one because I know I joke but it was actually because you know, usually when going into one of these chats it’s like “Yep I’ve got lots I can say about that,” and on this one I started off thinking I don’t know that I’ve got much to say about this. In fact, I’ve got heaps I can think of and say about it but the way I relate to anxiety is I try to live in the present as much as I can. So there’s a lot of trying to just keep the anxiety you know over there under wraps because I can invite that anxiety in and it will take over and I don’t want that to do it. So almost talking about it is a little bit sort of anxious really, if that makes any sense?
JULIE: You’ve also got a situation too where you struggle to take on board other people’s [yeah] problems and it may come across as really unempathetic. Yes. But my understanding is that you’ve got enough in your mind, on your plate so to speak, that you’re thinking about and taking on board others, it’s difficult to do that without adding to your pile if that if that makes sense.
JEL: So to clarify that, if someone comes at me with a problem and they ask for my help, I’m first one in to help and offer some advice, and think through, and give them some different perspectives, and brilliant if it works. Where I cannot do it is if they come at me for the 10th time with that problem and they’re going through loops. If they’re going through loops, just consuming advice and not progressing, and not listening to anything that was said before, or trying any suggestions, then I can’t get involved in that. I have to protect myself by backing off. So you know, otherwise I get sucked into their way of thinking and if they’re not changing then I can’t do anymore. It’s for someone else to offer some advice and the odds are that the person may have been around three or four other people asking for advice and getting the same advice, and then trying to … I just can’t get involved in that because to some degree, yes not empathetic but there is another thing where I can very much feel other people’s pain. If someone … I think I’ve mentioned this before, someone describes to me “Then I fell off the ladder and I broke my …”oh don’t tell me anymore because I can feel it. I can empathize with that, feel that feeling. So I can over empathize into someone’s situation and then I start worrying and thinking like them and that raises my anxiety.
JULIE: So that’s a protection mechanism that you have. At times very empathetic. At times coming across as you’re not. Either which way, you’re looking after yourself which I think is really important. I mean as ADHDers we do need to look after ourselves and if we can identify these triggers and go “Oh it’s going to happen,” you know survival. Survival. Look after yourself first.
JEL: And as we get older, we run out of people that are going to look after us. No, seriously. I mean again you know, you may be listening to this in your 50s and just think about it. As you get older you are more and more responsible for yourself. It’s not fair to ask your adult children to be the ones looking out for you. It’s fine they look out for you on a certain level but they’re not going … you didn’t create them in order to be your carers for the rest of your life. You do have to try to find a way of … but you know, you are then blessed on the other hand with the, a lifetime of experience and from that hopefully should come some wisdom at later stage of life. Is it easy? No, it’s not easy. Is it doable? Yes, on some levels it is doable. Do we have magic answers? No, but these just tips that have worked for us and we still apply, we still live by these suggestions we’ve made and we’ll continue to.
JULIE: So to sum it up really again there’s anxiety that doesn’t have to be involved with ADHD, ADHD doesn’t have to have anxiety but there is in most cases anxiety attached, but they can kind of work together as a double whammy. You can be medicated for either but just keep an eye on it because it actually can trigger some more emphasized anxiety. Everybody, not everybody, lots of people with ADHD goes through it. Identifying when it’s happening and what’s triggering it is important, and this idea of mindfulness to try and get us out of that loop, and talking. Talking with other people really helps put a new perspective on it all. So thank you for listening. This is ADHDifference and you’ve been listening to ADHD and anxiety.