E36 - AuDHD & Fantasy Fiction + guest JM Shaw

Julie Legg interviews JM Shaw, a talented fantasy fiction writer from Alberta, Canada, celebrated for her Callum Walker series. Diagnosed with ADHD and autism in adulthood, JM shares her unique journey to understanding her neurodivergence, a process that began after her son’s diagnosis in 2019.

JM opens up about how her dual diagnosis helped her make sense of her lifelong challenges, while also embracing the distinct way her mind works. She discusses how these traits fuel her creativity and passion for storytelling, transforming what might be seen as obstacles into tools for success. Together, they explore the intersections of neurodivergence, personal growth, and artistry.

KEY TAKEAWAYS

Late Diagnosis: JM Shaw discovered her adult ADHD and autism diagnoses was revelation and helped her make sense of lifelong experiences. She describes the dual experience of autism and ADHD as “having every tab open on a computer,” likening the overload to a “swirly wheel of death” when overwhelmed.
The Callum Walker Series: Writing has been a constant in JM’s life, evolving from a hobby to a passion and a therapeutic outlet. She began writing over 30 years ago and has since turned it into her calling. Her Callum Walker series explores the idea of fairy tales being rooted in reality, involving a coexisting magical realm hidden from non-magical humans.
ADHD and Creativity: JM credits her neurodivergence as a source of creative energy and unique perspectives, emphasizing her appreciation for how her brain functions.
Understanding and Acceptance: The diagnosis brought clarity and self-acceptance, transforming her view of challenges into opportunities to leverage her unique traits. JM embraces her brain’s functionality rather than viewing it as a disability.

LINKS

TRANSCRIPT

JULIE: I’m Julie Legg, author of The Missing Piece and diagnosed with ADHD at 52. Welcome to ADHDifference. In this episode I chat with the very talented JM Shaw from Alberta, Canada. Jennifer, as she is also known, is the fantasy fiction writer of the Callum Walker series that you may have heard. She was diagnosed with ADHD and autism just a few years back in adulthood and we talk about life as a neuroivergent and also her passion for writing. Well, it is so lovely to have you join us today, Jennifer.

JENNIFER: Thank you so much. Well thank you for having me.

JULIE: From Alberta Canada to New Zealand, yes, we’re spanning the time zones today. [A few of them.] So look, can you tell us bit about your journey of discovering your ADHD diagnosis as an adult?

JENNIFER: Yeah, so I wasn’t diagnosed until after my son, my first son, was diagnosed in 2019 and we were going through the ADOS (Autism Diagnostic Observation Schedule) assessment. He has autism and ADHD and I’m like, I remember thinking those are the things you’re looking for because that’s been me my whole life. And then literally three months after he was diagnosed, I received my own diagnosis of autism and combined presentation ADHD.

JULIE: Wow, and did that come as a surprise to you or were there kind of little hints along the way that you thought something might be different?

JENNIFER: Well, I didn’t know because I didn’t have anything to compare my sons to but looking back there’s a lot of things that now I’m like, okay, that made sense. So, it’s been a real eye opener for me.

JULIE: Absolutely, and ADHD and autism, that’s quite a common partnership, isn’t it.

JENNIFER: Yeah, yeah. My kids are 8 and 10 and I was trying to explain to them, I was like you know, it’s like your computer is opened with every single tab on the top. You’ve got music playing here, you’ve got a video playing here, and then it’s too much and you know, I get the swirly wheel of death. But I’ve never tried to think about it as a disability. I’ve always … I like the way my brain works.

JULIE: What I find very exciting about your work as JM Shaw with your fantasy fiction writing … Yes. I’m very excited by that because for ADHDers creativity plays such a huge part. So can you tell me about this series, your Callum Walker series and about your writing?

JENNIFER: Yeah, so I’ve been writing for … I don’t want to age myself, but I’ve been writing for over 30 years and when I was diagnosed with autism and ADHD I thought maybe this is my special interest. Because you know, it started as a hobby, turned into a passion, now it’s just cheaper than therapy. So, I started this series with the question of what if fairy tales were more than stories, monsters were flesh and blood, we just didn’t know it. And I kind of ran with it. And I started out … so there’s our world our time, there’s a coexisting magical realm but there’s a veil that separates us. We can’t see or cross this veil because we don’t have magic. But these creatures from this realm that do, can, and have and they’ve been the source of inspiration for our mythologies. My protagonist Callum Walker is a young man born with the ability to use magic. He doesn’t know why. He’s trying to make the most of it and he gets embroiled in what’s going on in this magical realm. And then through the series we follow him trying to figure out who he is, where he fits in, and masters abilities to survive in this world that is very much over his head.

JULIE: Wow, that’s awesome. And now the reading age is 13 to 18, is it that kind of young adult?

JENNIFER: Young adult and new adult crossover, like teens and 20s. But I’ve had everybody from my eight-year-old son up to octogenarians enjoying my novel, so …

JULIE: Wonderful. Wonderful. And does your ADHD and autism influence your work do you think? As far as imagination and creative writing?

JENNIFER: As far as the creative writing process, yes absolutely. I’ve always been an out-of-the-box thinker, kind of deal with what ifs. I got the ‘what if’ award in high school because I would ask the most crazy … “Well what if?” So, but I’m kind of, I feel that I see the world in a different way. I mean I’m always kind of thinking “If that wasn’t that way, what would it be like?” You know, so I do believe that it has. Now I can hyperfocus as well, like nobody’s business. So I can sit down at my computer at 8am in the morning and 8am in the … oh, sorry, 8:00pm in the evening get up and realize oh wow the whole day is gone and I’ve written like a 100 pages, so.

JULIE: Wow, wow. And so what is your typical writing process. Is it in bursts as you’ve explained when you’re hyperfocusing, or do you have a ritual writing process, daily, weekly?

JENNIFER: Yes. Because I’ve been writing for so long it feels weird not to write. So I try to … it’s kind of become part of my daily routine. And I homeschool my kids up till this year so they’re now in school, So I have that time during the day to … I have two very busy boys. I have that time during the day when they’re at school to do more writing and a lot of other things, kind of exploring ideas for. So instead of having more time to do things, I’m finding I’m more busy now because I’m like “Oh I can do that! I can do that! I can do that,” you know so. It’s … but I do write every single day and when I’m not writing I’m thinking about writing.

JULIE: Wow and what helps you stay on track because with your imagination, are you working solely on one book at a time, or are you having these amazing brainstorm ideas of plots for yet another book further down the track?

JENNIFER: I’ve written hundreds and hundreds of stories over the last like 30 plus years, and I was never allowed, I never allowed myself to delete anything. So I’ve got a lot of ideas there. I got a lot of ideas rattling my head. I can only work on, because I’m very linear I can only finish one project at a time. But what I do is I have a document on a computer it’s like I caught little snippets, like little scenes, you know like “Oh I have this idea for this car chase,” or whatever. But I don’t want to start a story just because I have the scene idea in my head. So I’ll write down the scene, file it away in the snippets.

JULIE: Fabulous and you know, we’ve got as ADHDers, and you too with autism, we’ve got some challenging traits that come and trip us up sometimes. How do you manage some of your quirks in order to stay on track and to balance your life, a busy life as a mum and a writer?

JENNIFER: Yeah, I have to … I have to get away sometimes. I used to feel guilty about spending time writing but then I realized I’m like this is my self-care. So I do take that time because it’s important to me. But my husband is very understanding so he comes home, we have this code word “I’m broken” I need a break, you know kind of thing. I have to text it now because my kids can spell. And so what it means is when he gets home, he takes the kids, I get my headphones on, and I go for a walk. Doesn’t matter if it’s you know, middle of summer, middle of winter, it doesn’t matter. I got to get out of the house and just let my mind wander.

JULIE: You have to have that balance, don’t you really. [Yes.] Yeah. And so fantasy fiction often explores you know themes of ‘otherness’ and alternative people, and ourselves really. And do you find that your neurodivergence is expressed through your characters and your writing?

JENNIFER: Oh definitely. Actually, it was during a book signing it was pointed out to me that my character’s journey trying to figure out where he is, because he’s too human for our side of the veil but he’s too oh sorry, he’s too magical for our side of the veil. I’m getting it mixed up. But he’s too human for that side of the veil. He says “Oh, it’s kind of like you with your autism trying to figure out where you fit.” I was like I totally didn’t even realize that. So I am writing myself into my books. I am writing my experience into my books so … But I’m just writing things that I see and also dealing with putting things in there to present things like mental health issues, the importance of families and friends, you know those wholesome messages and stuff in an adventure setting. So you know, I’m not like whacking somebody over the head with a 2×4 “Here’s a wholesome message, Pishhh!” You know so, it kind … I kind of put those things in there. And little insights that I have about life as well, so.

JULIE: Oh, that’s wonderful. That’s brilliant. Also what will readers be surprised to learn about you as Jennifer the writer, the parent, the creative.

JENIFFER: Oh I guess I’m not very much of a Tom … I’m not very much of a girly-girl. I’m very much a tomboy. Growing up I had four younger brothers. I was the oldest, the only girl. I don’t like, I’m not into the girly stuff. I like things like I did martial arts for many years. I love Airsoft. I love hiking. I love, you know I just … all those things that are you know, my brothers did and I said “Hey that’s fun,” you know. I don’t want to go paint my nails and you know, I’m just not that kind of person and stuff. I guess that would be surprising.

JULIE: That’s funny because I’m exactly the same. I’ve never, as a child and teen and adult, I’ve never really been that girly-girl with yeah, with painted nails and high heels and the rest. Interesting isn’t it, yeah. [Maybe that’s … I mean, I have lots of fun.] Yeah yeah, I bet. I bet you do. Well that’s wonderful. So what would you … what would you suggest to other people who are neurodiverse, who are creative, and who are thinking of writing as well? Because it can seem quite overwhelming if you haven’t done it before. What would you, what tips or tricks would you suggest for them?

JENNIFER: I … so when I was in school, I didn’t pay attention much into English. I was more of a science and math geek because your answers were either right or wrong. It was all black. It wasn’t like a bunch of grays. It was all either black or white, it was right or wrong. So I didn’t do, I didn’t pay much attention to you know language, arts or English when growing up. But I don’t need to, to tell a good story. And what I’ve done over the years to improve my writing is I’ve made a list of rules for myself. Like, you know, the you know … the little poems like I for E except after C unless you’re a Rottweiler you know, those kind of things. But it’s like where do commas go in there? How can I you know, teaching my kids actually homeschooling up to grade four that teaching them the English and the rules and such was, it was really important for me too. I relearned all of those that I didn’t really pay attention to. But there’s … I make myself a lot of little poems and little rules to follow that I can point out and there’s a lot of them, resources out there in Google.

JULIE: That’s awesome. Yeah it’s … it’s I guess removing some of those barriers that you know that stop us begin our task initiation. And yeah put those aside in order to go and let you creativeness be expressed, so that’s wonderful. And did you … did you have any training at all for writing, or did you put yourself on a writing course, or did you just put down your thoughts to paper?

JENNIFER: Like I said I started out when I was 12 and I just, I … when I’m writing I see it as a video in my head and I’m just writing down what I see. Didn’t pay attention in high school. My mom was an English major so you know, but I had no desire to learn how to write properly and the mechanics of it. I just wanted to tell the story. I was an X-ray tech before I became you know, a mom-slash-author. But my you know, since I decided to publish and I, you know, I’m writing more instead of just stories for myself I’m sharing, you know I’ve had to learn a lot about the mechanics of writing. And I’ve asked my mom to teach me. I’ve also talked to other editors and stuff. “Okay you’ve changed one word in that sentence and made it completely different. How did you do that,” you know, just trying to learn as much as I can about the actual writing craft. Yeah.

JULIE: Can you tell me a little bit about your publishing process? Are you an indie publisher, or …?

JENNIFER: I am. [You are, brilliant.] How was, how did you find that process? The first book you know, was a bit of a step. There was you know, ISBN numbers, websites, social media. You know, trying to figure out how to tell the world I exist. I don’t like to say marketing because it’s a scary word so I just say well I’m telling the world I exist. Those kind of things. It is all a huge learning curve. Once I had all the steps set up for my first book though the second book wasn’t that bad to put out and then the third books easier. You know, editors, there’s all these little details but now I have a checklist of things and I just sort of check them off as I go and set all the steps in motion.

JULIE: That’s amazing. And so your first book was 2019 and you’ve just released your third book in the series?

JENNIFER: My book, yeah my first book came out 2021. I started writing it in 2019, published in 2021, and then the next one, the second one came out 2022. The third one came out fall of 2023 and my fourth book is coming out early next year.

JULIE: Oh, how fabulous. And is there an end, or will you just keep on having adventures with Callum Walker?

JENNIFER: Well I know where the series is going to end, I just don’t know how many books it’s going to take to get there. So know I have a plan but it’s sort of a flexible plan.

JULIE: Wow, and does Callum age at all or does he remain a sort of a generic age?

JENNIFER: Well at the start of the book he’s 20-22, and by the second or the third book, I think it’s the third book, yeah when he wakes up he … when we start out in the third book he’s having his 23rd birthday. So we’re just following his timeline along.

JULIE: Wow, wow. That is so fascinating and I’m so pleased that you’ve gone ahead and done that, and not stopped at one book. I think if there’s creativity in there it needs to get out and for people to read. And so where can people read your book? Where can they pick it up?

JENNIFER: Yeah, so my books I guess are you know, if you’re in Alberta they’re in about 13 different Indigo and Chapter stores. It’s like the you know, the US has their Barnes & Noble, we have our Indigo and Chapters. Otherwise, they are available on Amazon. They’re on Kobo. You can find the links on my website. It’s www.jmshawauthor.com. [Brilliant.] And either read the descriptions about my books, you can follow. On the bottom of my website is my links for my Instagram and Facebook, and under each tab with the books it’ll take you right to Amazon.

JULIE: That’s brilliant and I will be putting all of those links in the show notes too, for those listening, you can find it all below just an easy click through away.

JENNIFER: I know that the fantasy magical, especially magical fantasy genre is really rife with the romance, the spicy romance. I don’t write spicy romance. That’s one of the things I cannot write. I don’t write mystery because I can’t figure out the who-done-its. I don’t write history because I fall asleep and I don’t do spicy romance. That’s not to say that there isn’t romance in my book, you just don’t need to know what happens in the bedroom. There’s nobody that has three chapters worth of stamina, so that you know, there’s so many out there I don’t want to add to the confusion that’s you know, going to be hitting this generation that’s coming out now.

JULIE: That’s great. So that’s a wholesome, wholesome fantasy fiction reading.

JENNIFER: Yes because I had written for so many like three decades and when I was diagnosed with autism and ADHD I thought maybe this is my special interest, like I said. And that’s when I got brave because I’d never shared anything before that. I took my first manuscript, my manuscript for my first book The Ascension, and I sent it off to an editor thinking okay the worst they can say is it sucks. And if they do, I will know and I’ll move on. My editor came back and said “This doesn’t suck. You should publish,” and I remember wanting to be a published author for so many years and so when I heard that I was just like you know what, I’m going to do it. And it’s been terrifying but you know, I don’t think I would be a published author if it wasn’t for my autism and ADHD.

JULIE: Yes, the drive, tenacity, and I guess things like overcoming rejection you know, the criticism side of things, and believing in yourself, so some self-compassion and going forward and risk taking in a way, to put your personal self out there through your characters, good on you. And just with regards to, you were saying, explaining ADHD and autism to your to your children. Are they finding it … how are they finding it in school or in the community?

JENNIFER: Is it more accepted now, as it may not have been in the past? Yeah, when I was a kid growing up there was hardly any information on it. I mean yes, you’d hear the odd kid, you’d hear ADHD occasionally, but more it was “Oh they’re a troubled child,” or “they’re just really rambunctious.” I remember people telling me with my boys that “Oh you have two very busy boys.” I had no idea what that meant because that was my whole world. And then I babysat a little girl and I thought she was broken because she just sat there and played quiet. She wasn’t trying to dive bomb somebody off the counter, hit people over the head with a toy, and that was, I think that was the point that I realized I was like okay, maybe my kids are extra busy. And I think going into the school at the age that they are, there’s a lot more resources and understanding around them. I wish I had some of that when I was growing up because I had to come up with my own strategies. And I also found out last year that I have mild dyslexia too. So, some of the strategies I had to come up for that. But I do remember reading books and I would have my book out here and I put my bookmark here. And I’d go down the next line because I get lost once I get to the end. Yes. I couldn’t find my way to the next line. [Yes.] And then I had to come away and she took my bookmark and said “You can’t read that way,” and I was like okay fine I’m going to use my finger. You can’t take that away, you know. So it’s just like things that I came up with. I remember not knowing how to talk to people so I would make notebooks. I was like okay, so and so said this. Oh, that was the response. Oh, there’s a smile. That must be what I need to say when somebody says that. I have notebooks of conversations because I came up with my own strategies for things. But I definitely think that there’s a lot more resources and there’s a lot more acceptance of it now.

JULIE: May I ask, are you taking medication for ADHD at all?

JENNIFER: Yes, I am taking medication for ADHD and when I started on the medication is when I wrote my Ascension.

JULIE: Fabulous. So in no way it’s getting in the way of your creativity, in fact it’s enhancing the ability to get it all out?

JENNIFER: I can keep my thoughts straight, and organize multiple points of view, and different perspectives, and you know, it was definitely a lot easier for me to stay focused being on the medications. I had tried for years without it and I thought, you know what? I just realized that I have, like I was diagnosed in 2019 with it, I thought you know what? I’m going to try. I’m going to try the medication, see if it works. If it doesn’t, then I’ll you know, I can at least say I’ve tried. And it was. It was night and day and I think my husband said the first thing he knows he’s like “Wow, you’re not speeding as much anymore.” I was like, I didn’t realize I was.

JULIE: Wow, that’s a remarkable shift. I love, the podcast has enabled me really to reach out across the oceans and to meet other really inspiring, wonderful people with ADHD and neurodiversity. And it’s been an absolute pleasure to be able to chat to you today. So, thank you.

JENNIFER: Oh well thank you. You know, what … when I was diagnosed, I don’t make it a secret and I found a lot of other people reach out to me. It’s like “Hey, you know, how did you find out because I think I might or I think my sister might,” or whatever. And I remember people asking me you know, “What is it like to have autism and ADHD?” I’m like, I don’t know. what’s it like to not? You know, it’s all I know. You know, what’s it feel like to breath? I don’t know.

JULIE: That’s so true. That’s so true. And I’m so glad we had a chance to chat. I’m very inspired and I might have to put pen to paper, or fingers to keyboard, for a fiction novel myself at some stage. I’ve done the non-fiction but I feel that there a little bit more to express than non-fiction. So that’ll be fun. [A little more freedom I think.] Yeah. I think that’s fabulous. Oh, just on a personal note, I was …did you find that you were masking? Now you know what masking is, do you think you masked a lot? Did that help get you through?

JENNIFER: Yeah. Yeah, I was a big people watcher to try to figure out what I was supposed, what was expected of me. Because there’s no blueprint for how you’re supposed to act in public. So I just had to kind of watch and I think you know, looking back I had a lot of like the characteristic you know, like presentations. It was there. It was obvious. Like looking back now but they … just there wasn’t as much awareness of it. But yes, I still mask on a daily basis you know. I think the first half of this meeting I was masking and then now I’m not so masking anymore. [But …. Ahhh, there you go.] A bit of masking happening.

JULIE: Yeah, yeah. Well, I’m glad that you’ve revealed yourself behind the mask. It’s a … yeah yeah, it’s a very cool thing to do. But I understand and I do it myself with regards to it’s easy to fall back into that masking because we’re so used to doing it for so many decades really.

JENNIFER: I mean, if I don’t mask then I, you know, I will say I’m afraid I’m going to say something, or do something, or be annoying, and I’m not sure why and I don’t know you know. It’s like you have your mask. It’s like a horse. You either hold the reigns or you go wild, you know. It’s … there’s no in between.

JULIE: Well, it’s lovely meeting you. Thank you, Jennifer. [You too. It was lovely meeting you as well. Thank you for this opportunity.] Oh, you’re most welcome.