Julie Legg chats with Dr Nathan Mellor, CEO of Strata Leadership, keynote speaker and author, to uncover his extraordinary journey of self-discovery and empowerment. Diagnosed with ADHD at the age of 30, Nathan’s life was profoundly reshaped by this pivotal revelation. Nathan’s narrative is not just inspiring—it’s a testament to the power of understanding, self-acceptance, and unwavering determination.
Harnessing resilience and an indomitable spirit, Nathan turned his challenges into opportunities for growth, emerging as a dynamic advocate for ADHD awareness. His story is one of navigating the intricate tapestry of hyperfocus, emotional intensity, and the demands of leadership, proving that individuals with ADHD possess exceptional potential to thrive in creative and adaptive environments.
KEY TAKEAWAYS
- Resilience and Self-Discovery: Despite initial reluctance, he embraced the diagnosis as a tool for understanding his struggles and strengths. Nathan developed resilience by confronting misconceptions about ADHD and overcoming personal biases.
- Hyperfocus and Leadership Skills: Hyperfocus presented challenges, such as exhaustion and difficulty balancing multiple interests, but also equipped Nathan with a strong work ethic and adaptability. His leadership in founding and running Strata Leadership is informed by his ability to harness creativity and remain empathetic to others’ struggles.
- Advocacy and Breaking Stigma: Nathan views speaking openly about ADHD as a responsibility to help others navigate their diagnoses and reduce societal stigma. By reframing ADHD as a difference rather than a deficit, he promotes an empowering perspective for individuals and communities.
- Harnessing Strengths and Driving Success: Dr. Mellor likened his mind to a “V12 engine with a faulty transmission,” symbolizing the disconnect he felt between his potential and execution prior to diagnosis. After diagnosis, he honed his focus and leadership skills, enabling him to excel academically and professionally.
LINKS
- https://strataleadership.com/nathan-mellor
- https://www.linkedin.com/in/drnathanmellor/
- https://julielegg.nz/
- ADHDifference website
TRANSCRIPT
JULIE: I’m Julie Legg, author of The Missing Piece and diagnosed with ADHD at 52. Welcome to ADHDifference. In this episode I’m delighted to chat to Dr Nathan Mellor, US-based he’s the CEO of Strata Leadership. He also is a two-time TedX speaker, and an author, and an academic. And he shares some deeply personal and reflective insights into his own ADHD journey. Thanks very much Nathan for joining us today on ADHDifference. Look I’ll get straight into the questions. You are diagnosed with ADHD, can you take us back to that moment? What age were you, and how did it shape your academic path which is so strong in your life?
NATHAN: Absolutely and for me it was right at the age of 30 and I was really struggling professionally where I was in a good job but it just felt like I was supposed to do something else. And it was just this constant pull to the next thing. Well, what do I need to do next? And I went to a therapist and I was just really talking about that, of I just feel like I can’t seem to draw a straight line from where I am to where I want to be. And then the therapist said “Let me ask some questions,” and went through and started asking the questions and I didn’t know what it was about. And she said “I think you’re … I think you have ADHD,” and then she sent me from there to a psychiatrist who actually did the diagnosis formally. And I struggled with it. I got the diagnosis. I understood what they were saying. It did sound like me but I had also built a bit of a bias against the idea of ADHD. And so it was a journey for me to understand really what that meant and now to look at that as in some ways a responsibility to talk openly about ADHD because I think there are other people who probably looked at it like I did who would benefit from getting some help.
JULIE: I agree and the stigma around ADHD, it hasn’t gone away with all our trying. It’s still very much a stigma today. What have you experienced? What were your thoughts when you were diagnosed, thinking about gosh I’ve got ADHD? How did you framework it at the time? Did you think that you would be a naughty boy running around or a rebellious boy?
NATHAN: You know for me it was the hyperfocus that was the challenge of I often would have two or three jobs at any given time. I was reading four or five books at any given time and it was just on all the time. It was just exhausting to be me and I thought well maybe that’s because I have been, I have some special capacity or whatever. And in all honesty school was really hard for me and so going through all those years I really wrestled with that of an idea that I just didn’t have what it took intellectually so I had to work extra hard. And matter of fact, I had taken a few IQ tests for friends of mine who were psychology Majors while I was in college and I would take the test for them and whatever. And what’s interesting is I never would go back to get the score. #1 IQ tests have limitations but #2 I didn’t want to have it confirmed that I just wasn’t very bright and so I wouldn’t ever go back to get the results. And when I got my diagnosis for ADHD the psychiatrist said “I want to take you through some additional assessments,” and they did an IQ test for me at that time. And they said “Well what do you think your score is?” And I gave an honest score which was pretty low and they came back and they said “No.” And they gave me the actual score which was a pretty high score. And I began this journey of I felt like if I could use an analogy of a vehicle, I had this V12 engine and then I had a transmission where it didn’t connect, and so I had all this ability but I felt like I couldn’t get it to go, and that began the journey of understanding why. And I’m grateful that I learned at the age of 30. I also wonder what would’ve happened if I had learned earlier.
JULIE: Yes, yes. There’s all these why’s isn’t it, when you retrospectively look back. Now you’ve … your academic career really, you’ve done amazing, amazing things. Now this, or a majority of this, would have been before diagnosis. School is one thing but actually university and your Masters and your doctor of Education, how did you do that undiagnosed? You know, what challenges, what extra things did you have to do to actually achieve all that?
NATHAN: A lot of it was just sheer effort of … I remember going to some of the more difficult classes. They would meet, these were the bigger classes with a lot of credits, some of these would meet every day which was unusual. And I would sit in class and I just couldn’t follow and it was, I was trying so hard but I couldn’t follow. And so instead of going … they had two sessions, one in the morning and one in the afternoon, and mine was the afternoon, and so I asked the professor could I go to the morning one as well. And I found that I could pass the class if I put in double the effort. But I didn’t walk away from the classes at that point feeling like I really knew the material. I just worked really hard to get through. So I had my first two degrees and I was struggling to get through. And I got my first two degrees I had an influencer, a really influential professor who had really questioned my self-perception and really helped me believe that maybe I could do something. And so I was moving in that direction but I really had to work hard to get it done. Then I was diagnosed, in between the two, and so when I finished my Master’s Degree, started working. That’s when I started just finding I couldn’t get on one lane. I was taking all the lanes, all the time. And got the diagnosis and then for me I began using prescription drugs but the dosage was not right. And so that actually made it a lot worse for a time and it was really, really tough. And then we finally got the right prescription and got going in the right direction. And all of a sudden, it wasn’t that I was a different person, but I could at least choose to engage. And then it allowed me to learn how people do that, and then it allowed me to have more options. And so I would say that the major difference was I had struggled in school all along. And so I end up going to a law school, and I’m pursuing a degree, another master’s degree in dispute resolution. And when I get there, I’ve moved my family to California where this school is. It’s at Peppedine University. I get to that school and the person who’s in charge of the student loans, which is … it’s an expensive school and I was going to go into debt quite a bit. That the person in charge of the student loans who I’ve been working with he came out and he just didn’t look … he looked like he had been sick. And I said, I said “Are you okay?” And he said “I’m not okay,” and I said “What’s going on?” He said “I don’t know how to tell you this, but I’ve made a big mistake and what I thought you were going to be able to get financially was not the right number.” And he said “It’s about half of what I told you.” And he said “I know you’ve moved your family here. I don’t know what to tell you. I’ve messed up.” And it was one of those things where someone had messed up so badly being upset about it didn’t help anything. So I said “Let me process this for a minute,” and so I went and drove and found a spot to just look got over the ocean and think. And I came back and I concluded that the only way for me to pull this off, because I was going to do my Master’s Degree for one year then go do my doctoral program. And I was scared to death about the math … this my … I’d never been in a law school. This was going to be a highly competitive environment and in those environments you’re graded against your classmates. It’s not just a standard, it’s against other really bright people. And so I was already nervous about that but I thought the only thing I can do, because the issue was the cost of living, was to start both programs at the same time. So I went down to the doctoral program and I said “I’m already at the law school,” and I told him what had happened and I said “Is there any chance I could join the cohort for the doctoral program now? Maybe a few classes at a time?” And they said “No you can’t take a few classes at a time. You have to do the entire program with the cohort.” And I’m sitting there and I’m trying to figure out how to make this work. I’ve got two small kids. This is a big deal. And they said “We’ve already had the orientation for the class but if you would be willing to do some assessments right now, do an essay, a writing sample, all that right now and you pass, we could let you in the program. Because you already are in the law school, so we have a reciprocal relationship.” So I sat down. They gave me the essay topic. I wrote the essay. They took it, reviewed it, came back and they said “You’re in.” But here’s … so now I’m taking 24 hours a semester, which is two full-time loads. And I’m working and raising two kids. The difference is I know what ADHD is now. I’m medicated for it. And so the workload I had had in the past, working twice as hard as everybody else to get the same result, all of a sudden that workload, the ability to do that, becomes a really positive thing. And so I ended up doing both programs at the same time and there is no way I could have done that before. But now with the transmission and the engine and alignment, all of a sudden I found that I was capable of doing things with less effort than prior to that had taken additional effort. And so it was a long path to me but if you had met any of my teachers in grade school, or high school, secondary school, and you said “I bet he’s going to end up having four degrees and being a professor and all the that,” that would have been a good laugh for all of us.
JULIE: Well, that story is incredible and I think isn’t it the tenacity with ADHD. Once we have an eye on the prize we go for it. And I think similarly, I don’t like … I don’t like the word no. Or I don’t like barriers. I don’t see barriers and so if I think it can be done, damn it, it will be done. Yeah. So wow, that is just absolutely incredible. Wow. So that was your study now of course, after your success there you’ve continued to be you know, a CEO, you’re an author, you’re an executive coach, you’re been a keynote speaker. How did your studies lend to this? What was the journey?
NATHAN: Sure. You know, going back to what you said a moment ago, when I first started, the grades that I had had, that I thought were good grades before were the … at the level that if you had those grades they would kick you out of the program. And so I was really nervous. I didn’t know how it would go. But I was determined to do it. And so the second, I think it was the second week of class, I went to the bookstore and I bought the frames that the degrees would go in when I earned them. And I had those on my wall, most, all … from that point forward in anticipation of it, because it was I needed to visualize it to be able to imagine that it could be done. And I would say that that’s been something that has been helpful for me because being able to visualize what could be gives me something to then pursue. And so in executive coaching I sit down with amazing leaders in complex organizations who are doing the same thing. And what I love about coaching is that it’s future oriented. This is where I am, and I’m helping people to identify this is where I want to go, and then we begin to look at well then, how would we get from here to there? And so all along, my desire has been to help people lead more effectively and I’ve had different ways of doing that. Whether it’s a professor, or as a executive coach, or starting a leadership company, or things like that. But throughout each of those different roles, the theme was the same of how can you help other people thrive. And that is something that is that ember that always burns hot within me of the idea of helping someone else succeed. It is a pure energy for me.
JULIE: I bet. I bet it is. And you know, there are many adults with ADHD who really aspire into leadership roles but maybe concerned how their ADHD will affect their performance. With the trip hazards, and the challenges, but also harnessing some strengths. So what advice would you give to someone with ADHD who dreams of stepping into a leadership role like that?
NATHAN: One is I would tell them that in some ways they might be even more equipped to be able to thrive. One of the challenges of having ADD is that you’re aware of everything happening in every room you go into. And so for me as a presenter, as a facilitator, as a coach, I am aware hopefully of everything happening in the room at the same time. And I didn’t realize that’s not what other people were experiencing. So when I walk into a room, I’m having the conversation I’m having, and I’m listening to the other conversation over there, and I’m noticing that the volume over here is going up or down. And that’s been the ADHD experience for me is I’m aware of everything happening all at one time. As an executive this can be very helpful because I am raising my awareness of what’s going on around me. The challenge in my mind for the ADHD executive is that they need to build the team around them to help them thrive. So for example, if it’s not on my calendar it doesn’t exist. That was something that ended up being liberating versus me wondering am I supposed to be someplace right now or … And so a lot of what I do ends up being very planned. Not only do I have on my calendar the events for the day, I will have on my calendar blocked off the time needed to do the thing that I said I was going to do. And so having that structure gives me little wins throughout the day. And so for that ADHD brain the stimulus level needed to do something has to be pretty high. So if I’ve already blocked off the time we got to go from here to here to get this done, I’m in essence playing little games that that match up with the ADHD brain. And what I find is that the energy level someone with ADHD can bring is typically a lot higher than other people can bring, and that can be an advantage. The downside is the impulsivity of when someone in an executive role, when somebody is pushing your buttons or whatever, it may be you’re going to have to work even harder to stay neutral instead of responding back with a comment that might be right and not helpful. I also find that you can get from where you are to a conclusion very, very fast and that might be helpful in some environments but in others it seems as if you’re not inviting people into the conversation. So that self-awareness always leads to other awareness and it’s really important for the ADHD brain to focus on self-awareness because I think we aren’t aware of how our action and fast-moving pace can really make life harder for other people those.
JULIE: Those things absolutely rang lots of bells for me. I think when you’re talking about observation, we’ve been … we learned from a very young age that’s what we did. I refer to it you know, feeling like an alien and kind of surveying the scene. And when your whole life is like that, yes, this observation becomes … well it is, it’s second nature. That’s what we do. So I love that as a positive. I also love your idea of chunking, I call it chunking, sort of segmenting your calendar and days. For many years, well a couple of decades, I was a contractor in marketing and you had to explain every hour. Well, I felt I needed to explain every hour and so I spent an hour to check my emails at the beginning of the day, half an hour to prep for a meeting. And so my calendar was completely full. And I knew when I was lagging behind or what I needed to shift to the next day. So absolutely I love, love that. And I also wanted to touch on impulsivity. As you said in meetings, maybe jumping to conclusions because we’ve problems solved well ahead of other people, but also too I think a struggle could be rejection sensitivity. When you’re in a top-level leadership role you’re still very sensitive to your ideas not being accepted. Would you have any guidance as to how people, ADHDers would cope with that?
NATHAN: Absolutely, and I do appreciate you bringing it up. Because once again, if I’m unaware that I have ADHD, if I see the symptoms but I haven’t taken the time to get the diagnosis, regardless of what you may choose to do with the diagnosis, I don’t understand that my response is not the same as other people’s response. And so I don’t realize that the way I’m feeling is not what other people are feeling in the room and that the burden I carry on that topic may be heavier. So back to the idea of how do I respond, it’s one of the reasons why I think I was drawn to that second master’s degree in conflict resolution. And so my angle was not really so much to be a negotiator, or a mediator, or an arbitrator. My angle was leaders tend to be where the conflicts are. And so if I am a leader I tend to be drawn to the problems to be solved, and by being in and surrounded by conflict, that can be a real problem. So my answer is not … is one that has worked for me but it’s not necessarily one that I can also cite an academic source and say this is the thing to do. And I’ll give you an example. I had been asked to work with a very large airline and they had a huge fleet of airplanes. This is one of the largest companies in the world. And so I’ve been asked to go to one of their bases and work with their leaders on various topics. And I get there and it’s one of those things where you walk into a room of people that did not ask for this opportunity. You’ve got 30 people in a room, most of whom are not happy and they don’t know why they’re there. It’s a … they’re angry at their leadership and then now you’ve been brought in to fix a problem that they have not been told was a problem until right now. It was a hostile environment. And I walk in and the arms are crossed. The people are angry. It’s … it’s not … this is a tough crowd, and I’ve worked with a lot of crowds. This is a tough one. And so I get into the presentation and it is not working. And this is something that I have worked with all kinds of groups and I typically know a way in if there’s a way in. There’s not a way in. And I do what sometimes you’ll see a facilitator do when they’re stuck, I said “Why don’t we go ahead and just take a quick break and come back.” And so I took the quick break trying to think what do I do here. And what I found was that the impulse to get angry, the impulse to let them know what I thought about that, all those things, none of which would have been helpful. Ad I found that the horsepower needed to do all the things that I do of responding negatively can also be applied in a very different way. And so I began asking myself this question which seems very simplistic and very naive but it’s not. I thought to myself, if I loved these people how would I manage this differently? And it dawned on me I’m not going to entertain them into listening. I’m not going to intimidate them into listening. I’m not going to impress them into listening. But if I would take a posture of wow, their response is very hostile, what could possibly be the reason why that’s the case? I would learn later that that’s the way to re-engage the executive function of your brain but at the time my idea was if I loved them I would increase my patience capacity. And I thought to myself don’t be threatened by their anger. Let their anger be translated into passion, and they’re passionate about something that they feel like they’re not getting. Serve them. Love them. Help them. That is not the normal tone for corporate, the corporate world. And I have found that that is something that probably should be.
JULIE: That’s very interesting and that’s a stop and rethink moment. And I think once you’ve had an ADHD diagnosis a lot of that goes on in life in general, doesn’t it. You think this … I would have normally have responded this way but now I know what my trigger response is going to be, I’m going to rethink that. So to apply that into business is absolutely brilliant. I was going to ask you this a little bit later but I want to dive in now, because I think a lot of workplaces aren’t set up, or perhaps some of their old school approaches don’t really reflect a neurodiverse friendly workplace, and particularly with ADHD. Would you suggest … I know this is what you will do as part of your function as a coach and a consultant, but what can business leaders or companies do to make their workplace more ADHD or neurodiverse-friendly?
NATHAN: One of my favorite companies that I’ve worked with over the last decade is a company called ArcBest ARCBEST, and ArcBest is a company that’s been around for a little over a hundred years. It’s a four and a half to five-billion-dollar US revenue per year, large company. And I’ve worked with them for like I said about a decade on different leadership development opportunities and a little over a year ago I got a call from one of their executives. And it was interesting because they were a bit nervous, I could tell in the conversation. And they said “We would like to sponsor a neurodiversity series and we’d like to bring in speakers to speak to our leaders about the various challenges of neurodiversity. And you had referenced in your book your challenges with ADHD and opportunities with ADHD for that matter. Would you be willing to speak to our leaders about your experience?” And I thought it was interesting that they were that nervous because they didn’t want to be presumptuous or offend me. But I could not have been happier that they cared enough to sponsor this. And they ended up sponsoring people to speak on several topics of interest and I said yes. And then like a lot of things, I said yes and then found that the actual experience was much harder than I thought it would be to encapsulate an idea, to share the idea, to do the whole thing. But it was really important to me. And so I went over there and did two hundred minute sessions. I have spoken for them at least 50 times. I have never had a response like I had for those two topics. And what I found was that people are primed to do differently but they don’t know what to do. They recognize the value of the neurodiversity. They recognize the impact of neurodiversity and they want to be allies but they don’t know what they’re supposed to do to help. And what I thought would have been resistance was not, and what I got in response was the number of people who came up and may not have felt comfortable saying out loud “I’m on the Spectrum” or “I am dealing with this, or I’m dealing …” but they would come up talk to me about their experience or more likely, they would talk to me about someone that they loved dearly that was also struggling with these different challenges. And what I found in that industry, which is a very competitive industry, they viewed this as a competitive advantage. How do we set our company up in a way where we not only are open to this but that we could receive advantage because of it. I think about people in my own life who struggle with … they’re on the spectrum for autism but they can literally do the work of two or three people on topics that match up with where they are. I think about what I can do and didn’t know that I could do or whatever it may be, and I don’t mean to … to be prideful. I’m trying to be encouraging. But what I would say is those who are listening to this who are in leadership positions, it is a small, small investment to open that conversation up in a way that is meant to be positive. Wouldn’t it be great if we had a work environment where we understood each other better? Not “Well we’ve got a compliance issue here and we got to talk about neurodiversity today.” Those leaders who talk about it in a positive way I think are opening themselves up. I saw someone talking the other day and they were talking about NASA. And they said they would estimate 75% or more of the people who work there are neurodiverse. Well, yeah. Those are the kinds of people who would do what they do. And I just think the more we can talk about this in a positive way, we’re all on this spectrum of capacity, and we’re talking about how do we maximize what is good for everybody.
JULIE: I think too when you were talking about advantages for that business, I’d like … I imagine it’s retaining staff for a start. Happy staff that felt seen, and heard, and contributing, and validated for the work that they do. Absolutely. Are there any other advantages from a business perspective? I sorry I’m mixing my questions up here, but is it … does it … top down or bottom up with, or somewhere in between? Do the employees also have an opportunity to contribute to this?
NATHAN: Yeah. You know, as much as I wish it could just be a grassroots effort and it goes from the bottom up, and those things are helpful, it is a much faster path to success when there are champions at the top. Because they wield more influence so more social influence. And so what I would say to those leaders and again, I get to work with … I get to work with the top executives in numerous industries and I’m so grateful for that. But what I’m … the reason I say it is because I don’t work in one industry. I work in a broad range of industries and I would say to those executives not only is this a good thing to do for society, it’s a good thing to do for business. But if the concern is there is a resistance to it, there isn’t. Every family you know has someone in that family, or someone close to them, where life has been harder than it had to be because we were unaware of how we could do things differently. And I would just say to you as a leader, this is one of those low-risk high-reward moments. And so when I look at what these creative hardworking people can bring to the table, you know like me, I started working my 40 hours a week when I was 14 years old. And I got to tell you, my drive to do my job well was not based upon my pay. It was the awareness that who I am is reflected in what I do, and I want to do my job well. Well that may be an ADHD thing too but imagine someone with that energy level who’s focused on being fully engaged, wouldn’t that be a helpful thing in your workplace?
JULIE: Incredible, yes it would. You talked about your 14-year-old self. My next question actually was going to be, what would you say to your younger self, if you had an opportunity to time travel back, about navigating life with ADHD? What words of advice would you give your younger self?
NATHAN: You know, recently a friend of mine posted on YouTube a video of us playing American football in high school. And we played for the championship of our league. And in the United States, high school sports is a big … is a big deal. And I had never seen the video and now it’s you know, 30 something years ago. And so I click on it, and I’m watching this kid, me, at probably 15 or 16, playing in that game. And a couple of things on an advantage side with ADHD in sports, I could process faster what was happening in front of me. And the impulsivity was rewarded because I could see what’s happening, make a decision, and be moving before anybody else on the team was responding. And that’s where the ADHD brain was really helpful. It’s that kind of the idea of a hunter versus the farmer. But I also know that one of the reasons why I never watched that video was because even though we won the game and we were the champions, I just thought well I don’t want to see the video and have confirmed again that I just didn’t do a very good job. So I am unexpected. I’m just watching this video and I click on the video, this is 30 something years ago, and I’m watching that kid and, in all honesty, the feeling I had was I just want … I would want to hug him. Because that kid was processing everything happening all around him, all the time. And you won the game but you still leave it thinking why, I probably messed that up and I could have done better on the thing and I just didn’t … And I wished I could have just hugged that kid. And I watched that video thinking I like that kid. I would see me just get hit, and I’m hurt, and I get back up and I think the resilience of that. And I … it was so far removed in time that it’s like I’m watching someone else. And I would have loved to have had a conversation with that kid and told him it’s going to be all right. Because I know. Because when I watch the video all those thoughts are coming back into my head. I know what I’m thinking. I can remember what I’m thinking. And I would have wanted to help that kid. I also … I also would have worked with him to not translate the fact that you weren’t good in school did not mean that you weren’t bright. And it was around that time I failed two classes and had to take them over. I think that I was the only kid in the whole class that failed either of them and I failed both. And it began to feed this idea that you’re just not very smart. And I … I’m okay with if that were the truth, but it wasn’t even true. There are a lot of good people who aren’t real bright but the point was you were believing something that was never true because what was being tested in the way that you’re being taught didn’t match the way that your brain worked. And once you could unlock that, some really good things were going to happen. But I would say that the primary feeling I would have towards that kid is compassion, because the world wasn’t going to slow down for him. But if he had had people come along aside him there were a lot of things that he could have done that he just was not aware of at the time and I would have wanted to help that kid.
JULIE: Well, all I can say Nathan is wow. You have an amazing story of resilience and success and I really wish that leaders listen to this and give you a call, damn it. Because just with a different lens how really the workplace can be transformed. And neurodiversity isn’t going away, going away in a hurry. And we are everywhere. But it is a little bit like a different operating system. We just need yeah, we need to be understood and we need to shine bright because I think there’s … we’ve got a lot of light to shine. And it’s just got to be receptive by those people in leadership for sure.
NATHAN: I would like to say real quickly, thank you so much for the invitation. And that professor for me that challenged my way of thinking, her name was Dr D Carson. And Dr Carson, first day of class, brought me to the front of the classroom and she put her finger in my face and she said “I know who you are.” And as she said “I think you’re gifted and you don’t know it.” And she made me sit in the front, front of the class, and I remember sitting there because she said “I expect you to make an A in this class and this class is not easy.” And I remember sitting in that chair, that little desk, and I ADHD kid had not brought any paper so I had to borrow paper from the person next to me. And I didn’t bring a pen so I had to borrow a pen from another kid because I didn’t come to class prepared. And I remember sitting there thinking what if she’s right? And I would take everything she said I would write down because I found an educator who knew how to unlock what I didn’t know was available. And I would just say to all those educators out there that are wondering is it worth it with that kid that’s a bit of a challenge, thank you. Because it starts at in in school. It starts with those coaches. It starts early with some compassion towards someone who is clearly trying and the normal path is not going to fit. So for the extra late nights that I may have cost those teachers along the way, thank you. And thank you to Dr D Carson. And thank you to you for hosting a program like this one. There is more reason for optimism now than ever before and there’s more reason for us to think we can do this, and how does the world look differently if we can open that opportunity for people whose brains may think differently to solve problems that we’ve not been able to solve before.
JULIE: Thank you very much Nathan.