E45 - Organising the Chaos + guest Tina Hazen

Host Julie Legg speaks with Tina Hazen, author and professional organizer (Houston, Texas), about her work helping individuals—especially those with ADHD—create structured, clutter-free spaces: organising the chaos.

Diagnosed with ADHD and anxiety at 38, Tina (founder of Think Inside the Boxx) emphasizes that traditional organizing methods often don’t work for individuals with ADHD, who may struggle with object permanence, decision paralysis, and maintaining systems over time. She shares her personal experiences of trial and error in organizing her own space and explains how she turned these lessons into strategies for her clients. Through her book, Life is Messy, and her professional work, Tina empowers people to design spaces that work with their ADHD brains rather than against them.

KEY TAKEAWAYS – Decluttering & Organizing Tips

Use the “Like with Like” method: Group similar items together. This helps prevent over-purchasing and ensures you know what you already have before shopping.
Create a “landing spot”: Designate a space near the entrance for essentials like keys, bags, sunglasses, and other daily-use items. This prevents misplaced items and reduces the stress of searching for them when leaving the house.
Set a timer for small tasks: If an organizing task feels overwhelming, set a timer for 10-15 minutes. This allows you to focus on one small section at a time, making progress more manageable.
Use visual storage solutions: ADHDers often struggle with object permanence (forgetting about items if they are out of sight). Using open baskets or clear storage bins can help keep items visible and prevent clutter from accumulating.
Start with the most stressful area Identify the space in your home that causes the most frustration (e.g., an overstuffed closet or messy kitchen). Tackling the biggest stressor first provides an immediate sense of relief and motivation to continue.
Body doubling for decluttering: Having a friend or accountability partner present while organizing can help maintain focus and motivation. Even if they are not actively helping, their presence can reduce distractions and increase productivity.

LINKS

TRANSCRIPT

JULIE: I’m Julie Legg, author of The Missing Piece and diagnosed with ADHD at 52. Welcome to ADHDifference. In this episode I chat with Tina Hazen from Houston, Texas. She’s founder of Think Inside the Boxx and she’s a professional organizer. Diagnosed at 36 with ADHD and anxiety, she’s also an author of the book called Life is Messy. We talk about organizing strategies, decluttering, and creating systems for inside the home and life. Tina, so lovely to have you join the podcast today, welcome.

TINA: Hi. Thank you so much and thank you for having me.

JULIE: Oh it’s great to see you. Great to see you. You’ve brightened up the day already with that terrific blue. Love it. [Thank you.] Now Tina, you were diagnosed with ADHD and anxiety as an adult. Can we start off by talking me through your journey to get to that diagnosis point?

TINA: Well I will say that I feel like I had anxiety from a very young age. I bite my fingernails and I’m just kind of I call myself a smoker’s personality, even though I don’t smoke cigarettes. But just very jittery and kind of jumpy. And I of course thought that was all anxiety and that is just… I just thought oh that’s just me. And then many, many years later I kind of have these had these emotional outbursts. I was like fine and then I’d be like ‘waaaah’, and then I’d be like oh that’s over, I’m totally fine. But I started thinking this is just not normal. I was married, had three kids and we’ve moved around a lot with my husband’s job and even twice internationally. But I was like, I just don’t think this is normal. I am going to go see if there’s something wrong with me. And so I sure did. I had the gamut of tests and yeah, she said “Oh honey.” I was 38 years old. She said “Oh yeah, you definitely have adult ADHD.” And in my mind, like most other people, you think it’s a young boy problem. You know, it’s someone that’s hyper in school and mine was nothing like that. So I am now 52 and to this day I’m still learning about it, which is it’s crazy to learn that about yourself. But once you know I think that it is… it’s such a great… you learn so much about yourself once you know that.

JULIE: Absolutely and discovering your diagnosis, how did… what was your instant response? What, how did you feel when you were given the verdict?

TINA: I think originally I didn’t know what to think but as I said, now that I’ve had it all these years and I’ve learned more about it, I really feel like I know the real me now. And the quirky things that are me, and that my husband knows that are me, and my children know that are me. It’s just like you can almost… I mean, not that it’s an excuse, but you kind of feel like oh that’s what her brain’s doing. Because yeah, I mean there are just certain things that I can’t stand. Certain noises. Certain textures. I need… you know I wrote a book which was very hard with someone with ADHD because that takes a lot of focus and it was hard. And I had to have complete silence when I had to think. And it was hard for me but I did it.

JULIE: And I’m really excited to be talking about your book shortly. [Yeah.] But what came first? The book or you being a professional organizer?

TINA: Oh definitely the organizer. I went to college to be a registered nurse. I was a nurse for a few years full-time, and then I had some children, and then I had… I was a nurse part-time for many years. And then we moved as I had mentioned, we moved again and I knew I wasn’t going to find the correct kind of nursing job that I wanted. I was very spoiled with what I had and we moved to a rural area and I was like I’m going to do something different. And so in my mind I was like I’m either going to go get my Master’s or do something completely different. And I found online, it’s called The National Association of Productivity and Organizing. And it’s called NAPO and I am a national member, and I’m also a Houston member here in Texas, I’m on the board. And I realized that that is an actual profession, being an organizer. And I said well I was born to do that. I could tell you that from the get-go. And so I kind of shifted my thinking into instead of being a nurse helping people, I’m now a professional organizer helping people. Because I help in many different ways when I go into your home and we declutter, and we you know, organize you know, what’s left after we declutter. So I really care strongly about mental health and the fact that I have you know, some issues. You know I’m like, you know we’re all made differently and I just love, I just love to be able to help.

JULIE: That sounds fabulous. So your book is called Life is Messy. [It is.] Ain’t that the truth. It certainly can be. And if it’s not within our homes, it sometimes can be in our brains, our busy brains. Tell me, tell me what inspired you to write the book and, for those readers, what they are likely to take away from it?

TINA: Yes, so I guess it was about five years ago… I have been an organizer for 16 years so I guess at about the year 11, I was like what can I do to help more people besides just this one-on-one. I was like I think I’m going to write a book about my issues with anxiety and ADHD, and in the book there are some personal stories. And I just want to let people know that they are not alone. So yes, they’re going to get organizing tips and tricks, and there is a section where I had interviewed seven adult female women and ages… like they span from 19 to 62, and they give me their stories as well. And so it’s not a typical organizing book because I feel like there are hundreds and hundreds of those out there. So this one’s a little bit different because it does talk more about mental health.

JULIE: Excellent. That I’m sure would be a very good read for many. You know, things like a messy, messy rooms, messy kitchen… I’m the first one to say that I do the dishes once a day, and it’s usually after breakfast. And so I’ve got 24 hours’ worth of dishes piling up. That system works for me, and it’s quite embarrassing to admit it, but that works for me. [Okay.] However you know, it can be quite overwhelming when I don’t know, you’ve got visitors coming around, you’ve got expectations from potentially the family or our own self expectations as well. So what common organizing mistakes do we as ADHDers, what common mistakes do we make?

TINA: Many. A lot of times it’s really just the procrastination of you know, it’s just not a dopamine hit for us to go do the laundry, or go do the dishes. And so what I try to help people do is even if you don’t like something set a timer and focus, even if it’s 10 minutes. You know, set that timer and do not let anything else distract you, including… including your phone. We love our phones but guess what? They’re attached to us in a bad way. So if it dings… I mean you may even want to put it on silent, but if you focus for 10 to 15 minutes and get that task done, when you get that ding yay, you can feel good about what you’ve completed. And then, say you’re on a roll and you’re moving? Set it for 10 more minutes. You may get another whole session in. And then what you said in the kitchen reminded me, I recommend in this… I love what you said about “it works for me”. But what works for me is I put everything in the dishwasher at night, and then I run it overnight and so when I wake up in the morning everything’s clean. And my children are grown so we’re empty nesters, but what I tell people is you know, when you are getting ready that next morning and you’re maybe getting your cup ready for work, you know that it’s clean because it’s already been run. So and then the other thing about dishes is just the way you feel. So if you haven’t cleaned up from dinner or maybe a few days’ worth of living, how do you feel when you walk into that room? Versus walking in, and it may not be perfect, don’t get me wrong, but if you walk into that room and it’s got a sense of order, it’s a whole different feeling. And so what I’m trying to do is just make you feel a little better.

JULIE: That’s brilliant. Very good ideas. And so how does one go about approaching these decluttering or creating systems?

TINA: Well I actually had a consultation today with a client and I’m going to be… it’s a big project. But really I just said to her, because there were many different areas that needed help, and I said what is your priority? So if I was a… had a magic wand, which I don’t, it’s time consuming and there is work involved. But if I had a magic wand, what would be your very first “yay, that’s done?” And she was like, “My master closet. We have got to get these clothes under control.” And so we are going to start there and then there’s a few other things that need to be done after that, but that’s going to be the priority. So it’s like, what is really bothering you the most? Is it that you can’t find things? You know, do you need a little system right when you walk into your door? I call it a… it’s called a landing spot, it’s what I call it. And so really when you come back into your door wherever you… whatever door you come into your home, you create a place. Whether it’s a basket or a bin where you can put your purse, your shoes. And then you know, maybe have some things… I don’t know if you need bug spray, or sunscreen, or anything like that. Maybe even your keys. So and if you always put those items in that same spot, you won’t lose them. So try to create that. And if you put items exactly in the same spot your brain doesn’t have to worry and wonder where that is.

JULIE: And we can spend a lot of time looking for lost car keys and sunglasses.

TINA: It’s amazing how… and then of course it’s stressful looking for something. I have an aging mother and she is just really frustrated because she’s losing things all the time. And you can just see the frustration level because she gets upset with herself. So anyhow, if we know where things are we don’t have to cause that added stress.

JULIE: Yeah. Do you come across clients that not just have an unorganized or a cluttered house but sort of the other side of the spectrum where they’re big hoarders, for example and it’s become a monumentous problem? Is that often seen?

TINA: Yeah so it can get, it can get quite huge. It definitely can. I volunteered on one of the shows a few years back which was quite an experience. But yes, in what I say to that is organizing help can be amazing but it really needs to be hand-in-hand with a therapist, because it goes a little deeper than just coming in and organizing. It becomes a habit for that person to maybe throw trash on the ground or just never put things away. And then it really does happen where they can’t find the basics. They can’t find their underwear and they have to go buy more. So not only do they have the problem of hoarding, they like hoard on top of themselves, so it becomes quite a big problem. So that’s more the exception than the rule with your clients? Yes. Now I personally, I personally try not to do that. I have two friends in the organizing world in the Houston area who do that but, and then I also have a friend where we lived in Pittsburgh before, she also does that. And I would help with the… I would help if I needed to but for my own personal clients that’s not my specialty.

JULIE: Are you able to share some success stories that some of your clients have had, some challenges and some results?

TINA: Absolutely. One of my favorite stories is from almost one of my… I’d say one of my first five clients had me come to her home. And we … actually she originally had me come for art supplies but you know once you get there you need a little… you notice that there are other things. So I decided to help her with her kitchen. She did not have a designated pantry but that was not a problem because we were just going to go through. So this is one of my favorite stories. So when we were going through her cabinets I just kept finding… do you guys, do you guys use Pam spray? Like if you’re going to… if you’re going to cook eggs? [Oh like an oil spray?] It’s like an oil spray, yeah. Yes, yes. So I kept finding these and I said huh why do we have so many? And she said I did not know I even had those and if I was at the store right now I would buy another. And I said no no no no no. So of course, that’s where money savings comes in as well. But so she used a… I helped her use a very elementary trick and it’s just called ‘like with like.’ You’re going to keep all your oils together. We’re going to keep all of your baking items together. You’re going to keep all of your non-perishables together. And basically, you can look and see what you have before you go to the store. And you know that you’re not going to need to buy this particular item for a while because you have plenty. So that’s just one example of how using a simple tip helps because you are always going to be able to use ‘like with like’, putting that together. And that can even go with even in the garage, or a place anywhere in the home, in your master closet where you know, you’re going to do your short sleeve shirts, and then your long sleeve shirts, and then your dresses. And if you do that and then you’re going to see wow I really have a lot of the same XYZ, long sleeve black shirts. Why do I need that many long sleeve black shirts? So it helps you realize what you have and what you can eliminate.

JULIE: And what’s the very first step? So we talked about identifying what the problem is, and how you feel about it. Yes. About putting a timer on and starting. [Yes. Those were great ideas.] What’s the next step for perseverance because some of these things can’t be tackled in 10 minutes. What do recommend? Something that perhaps may be quite bigger?

TINA: Absolutely. What I’d like you to do is take baby steps because this isn’t going to happen overnight. So like I had said earlier, set that timer and even if you need to do that every day with someone with ADHD you’re going to want to see the progress. You’re going to want to see the progression and then that’s going to give you a little bit more oomph, kicking the booty to move on and do maybe a little bit more. Because when you see the progress that helps you. So you know, find the area that you want and then tackle it. And then if you do need help get an accountability partner. Have your sister, a friend come and help you. And then obviously you can hire an organizer if you want to but that is not something that is mandatory. I really think that if you have a friend that… you know a lot of people get overwhelmed with doing this. Have a friend come over and go through your closet and make it a fun afternoon. [That’s a great idea. It’s… that’s often referred to as a phrase called body doubling. Have you heard of that?] Body doubling, absolutely. I do that with some clients with mail. Wow. With mail, absolutely. And then I had to learn as an organizer that it’s okay to stand there because I’m a doer. I’m a rock and roll, let’s get this. And it was hard for me to stand or sit while someone’s going through mail. And I had to learn that it’s okay. You’re the body double that needs to be there for this to happen. So yes, I’ve learned that along the way.

JULIE: So you must have had lots of cups of tea during your sessions while you observe and you assist. [Yes.] So how can our podcast listeners get in touch with you? How can they connect with you and …?

TINA: So I am becoming a professional speaker and I absolutely love helping more than one person at a time. So if there is anyone interested in my speaking services you can go to Tina Hazen.com, that’s t i n a h a zen.com and then my business is called Think Inside the Boxx with two x’s. And that is thinkinsidethebox.com and that is more for organizing services. I am on Instagram. I’ve also been doing some tips on TikTok and it’s again thinkinsidebox. I’m trying to… trying to spread the word that I care about the mental health of women out there.

JULIE: That’s brilliant. Now all of those links I will have in the show notes so listeners will be able to go and refer to those and find you and jump on Tik Tok and see a few little handy tips. That sounds brilliant. What do you love most about your work?

TINA: It’s so cliche but what I love about my work is it doesn’t feel like work. I absolutely love to help my clients and when I come home I am energized. I definitely do get tired but it just gives me such happiness to say they feel like they’ve gotten so much accomplished and that they are… they, I mean sometimes they’ll say I feel like I’ve been in a therapy session which is funny because I am not trained as a therapist. I am a nurse or you know, I have a nursing degree but I really just love that I can help a client and they actually are paying me for doing what I love.

JULIE: Oh fabulous. [Yeah, it’s so much fun.] What words of advice would you give someone who’s recently been diagnosed because this disorganization happens throughout one’s life, not just in the home. Any words of advice having been through that yourself?

TINA: Well the first thing I would say is take a deep breath. It’s going to be okay. There are a huge amount of support groups out there, and podcasts, and books. There’s so much to learn and I have told you I am still learning and it’s been 14 years. I didn’t realize the T-Rex sleeping thing until about three months ago and I do it. I didn’t even know that was an ADHD thing. But okay so the first thing is realize that you are special no matter what and even though we’re quirky, it’s okay. And if you’re trying to move forward and trying to you know, maybe try to organize your home, the whole thing with me is just baby steps. You know, if you take one small organizing tip. In my book there are 18 tips. Take one and see if you can do that and see if those small little habits can help and then you know, if that works maybe add another one. But we as ADHD people do so much better visually. You know, if we put things behind a cabinet we forget about them. That’s called object permanence. And so the problem becomes if you leave it out it becomes clutter. So finding little tips and tricks, and using baskets, are going to help you. I mean I am like that. I will forget my medicine if it is not laying out. So when someone comes over I’m hiding it because I think it looks like clutter. So you know, it’s just learning about it and seeing what you can do to make your life better.

JULIE: Well that’s great words of advice. Thank you so much, Tina. It’s been lovely, lovely chatting with you today and I will go and tidy my kitchen. That’s what I’ve been inspired to do.

TINA: Wonderful, wonderful. Thank you so much. I really appreciate it. [You’re welcome.]