E7 – Identifying with ADHD + guest Leonie-Ruth Acland

Julie Interviews Guests

In this episode Julie Legg interviews guest Leonie-Ruth Acland (aged 68, NSW) who identifies with ADHD but is not formally diagnosed. They chat about how this came about, feelings of ‘deficit’ as a child, and the inspirational women she has met on her ADHD journey.

Ruth shares how understanding her ADHD traits has allowed her to reframe her life with self-compassion, recognizing the strengths and resilience she has cultivated through her adventurous journey, including work with the UN and raising children in remote areas. They discuss the challenges older women face in identifying ADHD, the importance of emotional intelligence, and strategies for flourishing, such as mindfulness and connection with nature. Ruth’s insights inspire others to embrace their unique paths and seek understanding, whether formally diagnosed or self-identified.

KEY TAKEAWAYS

  • Identifying with ADHD Without a Formal Diagnosis: Ruth identified with ADHD at 68 after conversations with her sister, a psychotherapist, and personal reflection. She chose not to pursue formal diagnosis due to age, potential lack of medical treatment options, and the challenges of obtaining one.

  • Reframing Life Through the ADHD Lens: Realizing her ADHD traits allowed Ruth to reinterpret past struggles and achievements with self-compassion, appreciating her resilience in challenging circumstances. She views her adventurous life—including raising children in remote areas and working with the UN—with pride, recognizing the strengths her ADHD traits brought.

  • Strengths and Emotional Intelligence: Ruth emphasizes the role of emotional intelligence in her success, especially in collaborative and leadership roles like her work with the UN. Her ability to mediate, build teams, and foster connections has been a significant strength.

  • Strategies for Flourishing: Ruth follows Ayurvedic principles, including morning routines, yoga, meditation, and connection with nature, to ground herself and maintain balance. Self-compassion and avoiding perfectionism are key to her approach. She also finds value in professional conversations and community support.

  • Mentorship and Advocacy: Ruth is deeply involved in mentoring women to flourish, leveraging her life experiences to empower others. Her permaculture project, hosting interns, reflects her commitment to passing on knowledge and fostering growth in the next generation.

  • Community and ADHD in Older Women: Ruth highlights the challenges of ADHD in older women, such as societal ageism and the lack of support from medical professionals. She finds strength in the growing community of ADHD women and advocates for self-education, connection, and embracing self-identification over formal labels.

  • Message to Others: Ruth encourages women who identify with ADHD traits to seek understanding and resources that resonate with them, whether or not they pursue a formal diagnosis. She emphasizes personal growth and authenticity as transformative.

LINKS

TRANSCRIPT

JULIE: Hi I’m Julie Legg, author of The Missing Piece and diagnosed with ADHD at 52. Welcome to ADHDifference. Today we’ll be chatting about identifying with ADHD. I’ll be talking to Leonie-Ruth Acland from New South Wales, in Australia, who is 68 and has chosen to identify with ADHD rather than going through the formal diagnosis process. We’ll chat about the ‘whys and hows’ and also her personal experiences and strategies. She’s lived in Java and Tanzania, has associated with the UN, and she has learned to use her emotional intelligence to not only flourish personally, but to help other women flourish, internationally. Well, I am delighted to have Ruth with me this morning. Welcome Ruth.

RUTH: Hi there and it’s really nice for me to actually be recording in more or less my own time zone. We’ve only got two hours difference which, for me, is a huge luxury. I’m usually doing things at 5:30 in the morning to be with US or UK people, so it’s nice to be with New Zealander just across the ditch.

JULIE: Brilliant, awesome awesome. Now we connected online after reading that you had identified with ADHD at 68. Now I thought you’d be the most interesting person to speak to. In New Zealand that age group, your age group, there are numerous women also identifying with ADHD who … some have, and some have chosen not to get a formal diagnosis, so I thought yay let’s talk to Ruth and get your perspective … where you’re at, what made you come to this conclusion, and how has it impacted you. So, we’ll start off with how did it come about that you identified with ADHD.

RUTH: How does it come about indeed, good question. About just over 12 months ago, my sister who’s in education in schools … we’re having, we often have deep and meaningfuls, and she said to me something like “So you think you’re neurotypical, do you?” and to be perfectly honest, I’d never really thought about these things. Having said that, I do have three nephews who are ADHD but they’re boys and that certain generation, blah blah. And so, my … to my sister’s question I stopped, and I thought, and I said “I don’t think I’m neurotypical.” So, she said “Well that means you’re probably neurodiverse,” and I’m like, oh okay, fine. So, I sort of sat with that, and did a bit of research on what that might mean, and it kind of fitted my non-conformist attitude to life. Oh yes and my inclusion is out of diversity, I like that. And I didn’t think too much more about it. But I was having a conversation, several months later, with an acquaintance who I didn’t realize, but her husband was a retired psychotherapist who is also, I discovered ADHD, but I didn’t know this at the time. And we’re chatting away about whatever and something came up about neurodiversity and I said “Yeah I’ve just discovered that myself.” “Oh,” she said, “you need to have a chat to my husband.” So, he came along, we had this chat, and at the end of the chat he turns to me and says “So you realize that you’re very probably ADHD, don’t you?” And I’m like uh, no. I had no idea. So that was like, a bit like out of left field and so I go away and do some more research and more thinking. And I was working with a psychologist at the time and I had a big long deep discussion with him and we decided that yes, I probably am ADHD. And that has … it’s a journey of discovery, whether you go down a formal diagnosis or informally garnering information the way I’ve done it. And we decided that, considering my age, because I’m 68 and also other considerations about my medical condition, I would probably not be a candidate for medication anyway. So going down that particular route which is expensive, hard to get into etc etc, really wasn’t going to serve me very much purpose. So I started reading everything I could read about ADHD and walked into a bookshop on the south coast of New South Wales one day, and said “Oh do you have any books about ADHD women?” “Oh yes,” said the beautiful sales assistant and off we trot to the particular corner and she pulled out two or three. One was about young women, whatever.  I said “No no no,” and then she pulls out this book with a beautiful pink cover called ‘The Missing Piece’ by Julie Legg. And I was absolutely stopped in my tracks because my best friend here, who for the last 12 months during my discovery about neurodiversity and possibly ADHD, said to me one day “Why is this so important to you?” and I said to her “Because for the whole of my life I felt that there’s been a piece missing and now I think I know what it is.” And as I read your book, you can hear me tearing up now, I just was just in floods of tears over and over again. I’m like, “This is my story. This is who I am.” Oh my, so from being someone who had had a lot of messaging particularly in school about not fitting in, about … Literally I had a math tutor in year 10, my father was at the University of Wollongong, and this whoever it was, I can’t remember the person’s name, was helping me with my maths read before my HSC, and reported back to my father that there was ‘something missing’. Yet again, the same. Which I thought was, even at the time, pretty harsh and not very helpful for a tutor. And I thought, “Yeah I think there’s something missing, but I think it’s that you can’t tutor.” But anyway, that’s another story. But so the deficit model was just so stamped on my soul. And then to realize that there is this missing piece, and once that piece is in place, it doesn’t make the story easier but it makes the story truer. And it makes it so much easier for self-compassion, for understanding of myself, and I have to say, understanding of so many other people around about me. Because often if somebody’s anxious or twitchy, or whatever, whatever, I think oh maybe they’re ADHD like me. And that’s okay too. So that’s a little synopsis of of how it came to be. And since then, in December/January this year, I connected through Linkedin with a beautiful woman in the States who … we’re chatting about other things, but she said to me “Oh have you ever thought of doing a podcast?” and I yeah, I’m just … “Podcasts are my thing.” And a few years ago I was really really keen, but then some things have happened in my life and I’ve kind of looked, like, you know, I couldn’t do it by myself. And she said “Oh, okay” and so the conversation went on, and then the next week we had a chat and I said, “So have you ever thought of doing a podcast?” She said, “yeah.” And I said, “So would you like to do one with me?” and she said “Yes.” And she said, “What’s the topic going to be?” And she said, “Well, what about ADHD?” because it’s what we both share, I’m like “You’re on.” And the point of bringing that up is that, in it… for me, in the process of co-hosting this podcast, I have learned just so much more about ADHD in general, and listened to ADHD women’s stories, and everything resonates so much. I’m like, oh my gosh, so yeah.

JULIE: I completely understand and I think … I think it does reframework how you see your past life too, retrospectively, when you look back at those times when choices were made, and maybe some incidents or accidents, or whatever you know, came across your path, to just reframe that in a different way. And I think, I think it’s a beautiful thing. And also this opening up the conversation about ADHD I think is also really important. Whether it’s a formal diagnosis or not, it is … it’s something that we need not be ashamed about. We needn’t feel it as this deficit. As you said earlier, you grew up feeling that you were flawed in some way. That need not be the case anymore. So, I just highly encourage a conversation and, I love your podcast by the way.

RUTH: Oh, thank you. Thank you. Well interestingly, your book at the moment has traveled down to Melbourne where it sits on the bedside table of my beautiful niece, who’s just turned 21, and she’s undergoing a diagnosis herself. And she’s found it really helpful. And then my sister, who had the conversation with me, she’s also undergoing a diagnosis and we know it runs in families. You said something there about reframing and looking about our past, and I just want to pick up on something there. I now look back on what I have done, and my life choices, and where I’ve been, and I am in awe of what I … who I am, given the particular configuration of my brain, and the particular challenges that that has given me. So instead of viewing it as a huge struggle and seeing so many … I don’t want to say failures, but so many tough times, I’m now looking at it like, wow. That was just amazing that I did that. For example, I was married to an anthropologist for 24 years and the early part of our married life we lived in a slum in Central Java, where we had just … it’s one of the highest density, population density places in the world, and it was an off-street community and we had to … I counted one day, we had to walk past and greet formally no less than 100 people to get to the road, so my need for peace and quiet and privacy was just not there. And the Javanese anyway, think that if you’re by yourself there’s something wrong, so they always wanted to be with you. They had no concept. And I look back I think ‘Oh my gosh, I survived that.” We then went and lived in Tanzania, in central Tanzania, and I had my first child there. And came back to Australia to give birth and then, at aged four weeks, took my baby back. And my first anti-natal clinic was literally under a boabab tree, in Tanzania. So there I was, this young mother … back in the days 40 years ago, with … we didn’t have … we didn’t have … we couldn’t even make telephone calls let alone, you know. We didn’t even have regular mail. I was just so isolated. I went with a book called ‘Where there is no doctor’ which says it all. And now I think, gosh, I navigated those difficult times of early motherhood, and all those huge huge changes, and then I had a second child and we went back to live in Malaysia. And there I was stuck in a … and it was stuck, a housing estate, which was quite a lovely estate. I think it was an ex rubber plantation that had been cut down and put middle class housing on it. And I got a terrible case of mastitis and the interesting thing about that was the local women, who were Indian-Chinese, and Indian and Chinese mainly, they came around and supported me. They brought meals and one of them looked after my younger child so I could look after the other etc etc, and I was really closeted by community but I was there without a car, without … without public transport, with two little children. And it was so hot and humid that you couldn’t even walk around the block. And here was I, a nature person, used to entertaining my children by taking them outside and watching them look at trees etc. So all of those things I did, and I kind of think, if I had known I was ADHD I probably would have thought this wasn’t a good idea to begin with. But I didn’t and I kept on. I guess that’s the risk-taking things, “Oh yes. I’ll be right. Plunge myself in the deep end and sink or swim. And I did swim every time with, I have to say, not very good effects on my mental and emotional wellbeing. But I didn’t even have a concept of that at the time. So here I am now.

JULIE: I think you’ve absolutely described … you had a more colourful, adventurous life than myself, but it’s almost the ‘survival mode’ isn’t it? And when you don’t know any difference, you just keep on going. And you do whatever is required to survive and get through to the next day. And particularly as a mother, you have extraordinary extra powers to make sure that they too are safe. But you were right. The strain and stress on mental health, which wasn’t a big thing to be spoken about, you know, until relatively recently, it’s amazing how we survived. Yet you’ve had some amazing jobs too Ruth. Your time with the UN and bits and pieces. How do you think ADHD, undiagnosed at the time, how do you think that may have helped you have a glorious diverse career?

RUTH: My association with the UN was I was on the board of the United Nations Women in Australia and I had the privilege on three occasions to attend the commission on the status of women in New York. And I was reflecting on this last night. I felt very uncomfortable on the board. I’m not really comfortable with administrative things. I’m not really comfortable with a lot of the … the bureaucratic and the … just the way boards work, even though it was a lovely group of women. In my visits to the UN in New York on those three occasions what I brought to the team was my emotional intelligence. And it was very interesting because in one particular visit, the … one of the linchpin team members, one was unable to come because of a personal tragedy. And I was left with … there was just three of us. And the other two young women were fairly dismissive of me until they each singularly came to me and started complaining about the other, and all sorts of difficulties and blah blah. And I don’t … and I don’t do the talking behind people’s back things, so I became a peacemaker, and negotiator, and a team builder, and brought my emotional intelligence to that particular situation. And by the end of it, I knew that I had their respect which I thought, well that was pretty good. That was very very difficult. I was also presenting and facilitating in that particular trip and I remember going in front of the mirror and looking at myself in the hotel room and smiling and saying, “You can do this Leonie-Ruth. It’s all right. You’ve got this.” And I just … any number of times a day that I happened to be in the loo, or wherever I was and saw a mirror, that’s how I reassured myself. It was pretty raw. It was really tough. And I wouldn’t, up until recently, I would not have said I was a strong woman. People have said to me in the last few years, “You realize you’re a very strong woman,” and I’ve gone “Oh.” And now, with ADHD in the picture, I’m like I’m an amazingly strong woman, yes. Because I did all these things with this extra layer of challenge. I always felt that I was working so much harder than other people but I didn’t know why. I always knew that I was pushing myself more but I didn’t know why. And I now realize it was because, without doing that I wouldn’t have got anywhere. And the social expectations to get somewhere etc were so pressing. And also my desire to contribute to the world and to be my best self is … is still very strong. Up until a few years ago I used to say, “I really don’t know what I’ll be until I … when I grow up,” and now, at 68, I feel as if I have grown up and I know who I am, and I’m growing into that role now of elder-ship wisdom, which I’m really comfortable with too.

JULIE: A perfect fit. An absolutely perfect fit. With your emotional intelligence and empathy that’s a glorious glorious place to be and, I’m sure there’ll be many many women that will benefit from your service. Are there any strategies that you’re currently using, now you have a broader understanding of ADHD? Any small strategies that you’re using now, that you wouldn’t have used years ago? So rather than survival, is there anything else that makes your life easier now than perhaps previously?

RUTH: Very good question. Yes. I … the work I do I call ‘mentoring to flourish’ and it’s something … There’s a beautiful woman in the UK called Fabienne Vailes who has a podcast called ‘Flourishing Education’ and she’s doing her PhD on that particular topic, and looks mainly at young people but flourishing in general, and then we’ve had wonderful discussions, and she’s interviewed me on her podcast. And the more I thought about it I thought flourishing is what I’m about. And how do you flourish? Well for example, this … I didn’t sleep well last night. There’s been quite a few things happened in my family in the last little while. Lots of tragedy, lots of grief and loss compounding, one after another. And to be perfectly honest I feel rather battered. And as I woke up and I knew that I was going to be interviewed, and I looked in the mirror, and I thought right this morning’s the morning for some concealer, so … under the eye bags! But then I thought, right … how am I going to … I just thought, okay, I do what I need to do. So for me, I have a very strong morning and evening routine which grounds me. I also have a strong concept of Ayurvedic lifestyle medicine, which is the ancient Indian practice introduced by the Vedas 4 to 6,000 years ago. It has a very strong philosophical, and astrological, and a medical lifestyle component. And it’s a medical lifestyle component that I’m interested in and it’s basically a sister-science to yoga. So I do those two things. So strong daily routine and a morning routine is part of that. So I get up and this morning I had a cold shower … I do dry brushing, I had a cold shower, I then … we live in a very cold climate here in Australia and I’ve lit my beautiful slow combustion stove and I sit in front of that, and I do a whole-body massage with sesame oil, which is called abhyanga, the massaging, and that nourishes the body and also is very grounding, which I find being ADHD I need to be grounded. There’s just so much flightiness in me. So yeah, just really grounding myself. I then did a short little yoga routine and a short meditation, and after that I’m like yep that’s good. Then I had my brekkie, and then it was time to go outside in the big wide world which is freezing cold. And so I … the dog and I run down to the chooks and ducks and run between the chooks and the ducks and feed, and do this, that, and the next thing. By the time I do that, and get the blood pumping, I come back and I think I’m a lot more alive now. So those lifestyle intervention strategies are very very strong. A lot of the ADHD specific type strategies … body doubling for example, I don’t use per se, but I realize that I have … for me, what’s a bit of an equivalent, which is professional … in particular, professional conversations which nourish me and motivate me to keep doing what I’m doing, if that makes sense. So instead of having the person in the room, or at the end of the phone, it’s a … like this. This would be, for me, the equivalent of a body doubling. It’s kind of like we’re doing something, we’re in the space, we’re thinking, we’re using our minds, so use that. The other big piece for me is self-compassion and I think you talk about that a lot in your book too. That I no longer beat myself up. So not beating myself up and realizing that part of that beating yourself up, and being hard in yourself, is part of the perfectionist type trait which creeps in with ADHD. I think, as much as anything, because it’s like we have to try so hard that unless we’re perfect, we won’t be as good as other people. I also do a heart meditation which I find helpful and I did this morning, which is starting with self-compassion moving to inner peace, moving to healing presence, and ending with unconditional love. And I tend to find that whatever space I’m in, if I do that, that shifts something within me. So all these strategies I do. And the biggest and the strongest is making sure that I move my body and that I connect with nature as often as possible, which for me means being outside.

JULIE: Yes, thank you for sharing that. I was going to ask you about your love of soil and permaculture because this being in nature, myself, I am alive when I’m outside. And, whenever I’m at a loss, I will just walk outside. And we’ve got native birds, and fruit trees, and fresh air, and wind and my face … and that makes … certainly makes me feel alive, so I can … I certainly get that. But you have a project too around permaculture?

RUTH: We do, we do. We’ve started an internship project and we’ve built a little cottage on our two acres specifically to house an intern. And in fact, the woman I mentioned who’s my co-host is going to be our first intern. And the way that came about is just amazing because she … I had employed her to re-jig my website and maintain it for me because I don’t have any technical skills or interest in it, and I I’m very happy to delegate when I can. And she … we decided to start a special page, specifics page on my website, for … calling it Tanglewood, which the name of our property, to talk about the internship. And as she’s inputting all the information about it, she’s thinking to herself, “This is really interesting. Oh, I’d really like to do that. Oh actually …” And so, the next time we had a conversation, she said “I put all the information in and actually I’d really like to apply.” I said, “Go for it.” So she applied and and she’s our intern of choice, which is brilliant. So this is a way of sharing with other people, in her case the next generation, a love of what we do. And, in her case, she specifically wants to actually go back to the States and start her own enterprise as it were, her own project growing vegetables and doing other things, which is very exciting … and needs to really learn the ropes. So it’s a way of of helping and teaching, and we get the extra help around the farm, which is really useful too. Since I’ve been aware of ADHD it’s a bit like … if you’re planning to buy a blue Golf car then you notice blue Golfs everywhere … Since I’ve been aware of ADHD, I’m gobsmacked at the number of ADHD women that are around and even to the point of women saying to me, “Oh so you’re ADHD are you,” or “Yes, as soon as I met you I realized you’re ADHD” and I’ve been taken aback. It’s almost been like a citizen’s … the equivalent of a citizen’s arrest. You don’t need the police to come along and get me. The community have done it. That has taken me by surprise but it’s also warmed my heart because I feel that there’s a real sorority out there. And I’ve had young women, you know, spark up and say “Oh yeah. I knew you were ADHD and let’s have a chat,” and so it’s been really nice. I think for older women, as your earlier question pointed out, it is a struggle anyway. Our society is very ageist. It’s a struggle to be taken seriously. We’re seen to be hysterical, or precious, or whatever. And I have to say, I think that the medical fraternity, in particular, is structurally very ageist. It doesn’t mean that individuals within the system are always ageist, but that’s … there’s a very much a strong age-bias that comes out. And it is like, “Oh well you’ve got to this age that you’ll be okay.” But the sense of community that is around knowing that there are other women who understand is actually really really powerful. And particularly when depression and anxiety are …. go hand in, and lack of emotional regulation go hand in hand with ADHD, it’s really nice to think sometimes “Actually it isn’t just me. There are lots of women around the world who deal with these things, who struggle with them.” And it’s not sort of saying, “Oh well, therefore I just have to get on with it.” It’s like they understand and I understand them, and I think there’s a lot of power in that.

JULIE: Absolutely. Ruth, I was going to ask you too, what would you say to other women in your age bracket … say, if they also felt, or they identified with ADHD too? What would your words of wisdom be to them … and the reason I ask is that in New Zealand many will give up even seeking an assessment because the first hurdle might be their doctor who may say “Oh you’ve made it this far. I’m sure you don’t have ADHD. Or you’re successful, or you’re too intelligent. And so it’s a bit of a slap in the face for someone reaching out wanting to seek a better understanding for themselves. So that’s here in New Zealand. So again, my question to you, what would your advice be in Australia to friends or acquaintances that you know?

RUTH: Well, I see life as journey and one’s personal growth is really what the journey is about. And in that state of personal growth, the more we can understand and know ourselves, the more real we show up in the world. The more real we show up in the world we can connect both with nature and with other people in a much more vibrant, way the better the world becomes because we’re all intra-connected and interdependent. So, if you are feeling or identifying with all the indicators of ADHD … for some … some people hate the label and I’ve spoken to people who really resist that. But for me it was like a balm. It was like “Oh, that’s what it is.” So, if you’re feeling like that’s what it is, I wouldn’t worry what other people say or think. Read the books around then look online. There are so many fabulous podcasts fabulous fabulous, by women all over the world. You can find your niche. You can find information about it and if you identify with the things that other ADHD women are talking about, whether you’ve been given an official or an unofficial label, or no label at all, is irrelevant. If there’s information as a human being that makes your life richer and easier to live on this planet, go for it. That would be my advice.

JULIE: Couldn’t have said it better myself Ruth. That’s wonderful. I would like to thank you so much for your time. I’ve learned so much more about you, which is wonderful. And you’ve had a beautiful life and you’re continuing to do that with your flourishing and being this advocate and mentor or ‘femtor’, female mentor, for other women is just incredible. And so thank you Ruth …

RUTH: My great pleasure.

JULIE: … for being you and also for sharing your story with me today. Thank you.

Scroll to top